Modern Alternatives to MBA
Been reading lots of posts about MBA programs. Here are some alternatives.
I’ll get right to it: in today’s world, I’m increasingly convinced that for people who are looking for 1) a break, 2) a pivot, or 3) an academic experience— there are far better alternatives that are better for the individuals themselves AND for society at large.
What kind of society do we want? People WAY over-indebted who overpaid way too much to learn concepts you could learn online? Or a society that has less debt, more time with loved ones, more innovation, more of a culture of “try something new” and if you fail, that’s ok at least you learned something. Low stakes trial and error (as opposed to going to an MBA program/still not having dream job guaranteed/not recruiting well/recruiting during a downturn with all that debt/possibly being at the bottom half of the grade distribution and being very vulnerable after paying $$$).
- Break
The boomer standard is for people to drop 200-400k (opportunity cost of not receiving income + debt of program) and become “a better leader.” This is dubious for a few reasons: a) the cost, b) the time spent studying courses you could instead take online for 1/400th of the cost, and c) the time wasted studying vocab words/random brain teasers for standardized tests — instead of spending time on loved ones/relaxing/going to therapy, and d) the insane amount of $ people burn on admissions boosters (GMAT courses etc.), and e) perpetuating this cycle that is frankly a large waste of time and $.
Instead, people should 1) take a trip somewhere interesting: traveling outside the US, seeing the world, and experiencing a new culture will be far more interesting than staring at a screen and learning about “[business concept]” via a $1k book that the professor made you buy, 2) work at a non profit, 3) work at a start up or try something new.
Or buy a home with that $300k loan.
- Learning & Pivoting
You don’t need an MBA to learn business. Take WSO courses, community college courses that cost $300 for financial accounting/etc, LEARN FROM COMPANY RESOURCES, YouTube. The efficiency is far greater.
Also, for networking, just go out to events more often and network also through hobbies. Networking through hobbies tend to be far more genuine connections. And I’ve found networking at random events in many cases more interesting than just alumni events which sometimes be a bit culty and off-putting. Meet different people with different perspectives/experiences - good for the soul. Tribal mindset isn’t helpful and breeds a toxic culture - we should be learning interacting with people who are completely different.
- Academic experience: STEM PhD > MBA
Science and technology is what pushes society forward. Assets and liabilities? Not so much. If you’re really into school, I would encourage you to look into STEM PhD programs and just give it a shot. Even if you change your area of research, you’re making discoveries along the way. This is helpful to society as our future depends upon STEM innovation (quantum computing, unlimited energy, telepathy, flying vehicles, sustainability, space exploration and settlement, etc.).
It’s also paid for by the government.
Really burned out? Drop out. Go work at a start up/in tech. The best entrepreneurs are drop outs themselves. You still extracted value and will give value to research/innovation/your new employer.
The education industry is ripe for disruption. Elon Musk has inspired me tremendously, so in a way I’ve learned from him and are letting you all know my thoughts.
Lastly, it would be awesome if the government emphasized loans for entrepreneurship instead of degrees.
It’s up to us to change our culture for the better.
100%. If we had more people going to start ups/scientific research post IB/PE instead of MBA we’d have flying cars by now.
Elon Musk mentioned something along the lines of “too many smart people in law and finance” and should instead be in “entrepreneurship/start ups/scientific research”
100% agree with that. Imagine if the brightest bankers worked in start ups instead.
The free market incentives don't align there, as sad as that is to say. Deeper conversations on capitalism ensue from here.
But I'm a capitalist so..... can't wait to matriculate next year!!!!
The people going to ib wouldn’t have cut it in scientific research lmfao
Have you dropped out yet?
I paid $36k for my MBA at a top 10 program thanks to California in-state tuition. And I still wonder if it was worth it. Perhaps self-study for CFA, online financial modeling, and a 3 month coding bootcamp would have been more effective for my goals.
Financial modeling courses are extremely helpful. They do a great job at getting straight to the point.
Really great post.
Don't disagree with a word of it, but to play Devil's Advocate and "steel man" the pro-MBA argument: I think one could say that the MBA combines #2 and #3 (pivot + academics) better than most alternatives at the moment. The STEM PhD programs still have work to do of becoming a clearer and more reliable pipeline to post-MBA roles. Right now, major IBs and consulting firms are a lot more familiar and comfortable with the MBA education and that makes candidates more comfortable that an MBA will deliver the pivot they want. I think the PhD programs can get there, they just need to do more work educating the employers and - to the extent a PhD program is having success with placement into coveted post-MBA roles - marketing that success to candidates.
I see what you’re saying, partially agree but a few points to note/expand upon/clarify — an MBA does not combine 2 and 3 (pivot + academics) best AT THE MOMENT — hence why people today have become very skeptical of an MBA.
HISTORICALLY, yes, MBA has done well at combining the pivot factor and academics. This is largely because the boomer generation 1) did not have the same resources available today (online practical education) and 2) generally did whatever was fed to them with inadequate skepticism.
But does an MBA do the best job at that today? Not at all, per the reasons I mentioned above — i.e., incurring an enormous opportunity cost with zero certainty that you’ll land something better than before, plus the fact that you can obtain the same education for 1/400th of the price. Aside from the $ opportunity cost, it’s a huge waste of time as well (studying useless material for standardized tests, entire application process, having an experience that doesn’t meet the expectations that are marketed to people, etc.).
Trying something new or moving to a “less prestigious job” temporarily to “pivot” or working in a different geography are far better than an MBA. People are trying new jobs/industries more than ever which is a positive trend. Also, tech companies realized that they can get more workers faster with more practical skills and more efficient training via dropping degree requirements and accepting applicants for having skills given at one month boot camps (just know how to code/do xyz skill and that’s it). This has eased pivoting.
STEM PhDs and MBAs serve two different functions: MBAs for practical education, PhD for research.
Even so, PhDs are becoming more attractive to consulting and hybrid tech/finance jobs (startups/VC) which are traditional post MBA roles. Makes sense because the value of the services offered from these jobs is from unique insights/innovation/sector expertise, exactly what a STEM PhD offers.
Speaking of tech and pivoting — this has become a new alternative to FINANCE (as opposed to a pivot for the general population like I mentioned above) for the brightest new college grads. You can now earn a much higher salary in tech than finance and overall with a much better culture. However, job stability in tech was arguably more exposed to economic downturns than finance for new joiners — but with all the new junior layoffs, finance lost maybe one of the last edge it had over tech for recruiting the best. Seniors kind of shot themselves in the foot with this.
A couple of noteworthy quotes to ponder:
- “I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.” (online modeling courses>MBA)
- “Education: the path from cocky ignorance to miserable uncertainty.” (Millennials and Gen z saddled with lots of debt with little pay/false expectations)
- Mark Twain
…And the boomers wonder why we think the way we do. We are a product of the environment. A shitty environment that the seniors created for us.
What hobbies do you network through? I hear people say this but idk what this means other than maybe golf
I attend flag football/other sports meet ups and made a friend (“friend a”) (who I didn’t know before I started playing) who connected me to his friend (“friend b”). Friend b talked to me about a tech/research summer job before I start my PhD (leaving PE in like a month).
HE DID NOT HAND ME THE JOB. And I’m not working at his company. But what he did do was tell about the gig/industry and give me resources, which I then used.
Didn’t have anything in common besides being a nice human being. Was quite natural.
I like barely glanced over this lol barely but I see you mentioned academia and like the academic sector being ripe for disruption. If you're interested in education investment banking I would check out Tyton in Stamford CT (they're building out a boston office too but I think that is mostly edu consulting right now).
But anyways dude if you're looking for an alternative to MBA I would actually go to the business school of your undergrad (or make a connection somehow if you went to LAC) and ask a professor over coffee like what are their top picks in terms of reading material (books, articles, economist, etc.) and make sure it's like 2 years worth of reading lol. Then what you can do is "self teach" (really you are just expanding your knowledge base which is different than getting a degree) and that is gonna be like a side thing right. Okay at this point you are still missing the travel aspect of the MBA because most people with a shred of ambition like to put themselves out there away from home. If it were me I would like go travel to some like random country like Sierra Leone or some shit and just be a schoolteacher there for 24 months.
Think about it right you get to travel, meet new people and form connections that will be useful, it's a job so you have structure in your life, and in your free time you keep up with your interest in finance. Then you go back to USA and strike up a conversation with the Evercore MD whose family immigrated from Africa or whatever and now you're a SVP looking to get promoted again in 2 years.
I appreciate this perspective. I think many people should consider being a teacher in a different country. Perhaps something to add to my bucket list.
Have a unique experience and continue learning finance (at a price far below MBA tuition!). I imagine that teaching kids in a foreign country would add a life changing perspective on the world. Did a few volunteering initiatives in college and changed the way I see life.
Bud, you’re all over the place. Lumping all MBA programs together and then disparaging them. STEM PhD’s as an alternative. Thoughts on society as a whole. Elon Musk’s approach to hiring and management. This seems like a post that is seeking vindication from other Monkeys for personal decisions you have made or are thinking of making, while posing as someone who has it all figured out. I’d suggest asking more questions, and give less advice.
Bud, clearly you can’t understand nuance.
Also, not a helpful comment for pro/against MBA or PhD - I can’t take you seriously given you don’t have anything substantive to contribute to the discussion.
I’d suggest offering something of value that’s not overly general/intellectually lazy. Or maybe you’re just dumb.
Yeah, I must just be dumb. So you are asking for advice then, and presumably trying to decide between pursuing an MBA or a STEM PhD? My confusion stemmed from you labeling the thread Modern MBA Alternatives. Your clickbait worked. I thought I was tuning into some data backed alternatives or perhaps someone with some first hand experience. Do you have either? I can’t speak to a PhD program or coding bootcamps. I can however speak to my firsthand experience getting an MBA from a school known more for soft skills than hard skills. I personally could not justify the thought of forgoing two years of compensation (as you stated), so I instead did a working program (classes in the evenings and on weekends). This may not appeal to you at all, because again, it wasn’t clear what you were asking or that you were asking anything at all. For me, it worked well. Tuition netted to be $80k out of pocket, and I paid cash for it from the earnings from that job I didn’t want to quit. This would have been a little more expensive for me, but my employer paid the $5,250 amount annually (common for employers to pay this as a benefit since if they pay any more then you would have to pay tax on what they give you). Was it easy working all day and then going to class in the evenings and weekends? It was not, but I also didn’t have a significant other, or many responsibilities then, which made it easier for me to manage my time. Over those two and a half years I was able to get promoted (with naturally a pay increase) at my job, and when I graduated from my program, I stuck around for an extra 6 months and learned the lesson first hand that a company will not pay you extra for earning another degree or certificate. With that said, it doesn’t mean that another company won’t. My resume, bolstered by the experience I earned over the years that I was working and going to school, and the credential of having the MBA itself, got me an interview in Corp Dev, a role I wouldn’t have been considered for beforehand. I was bored in my old job and felt undervalued. Now, I like what I do on a daily basis and like the people I work with, and my compensation went up 30% with the new job. Will it be great forever? Almost certainly not, but for now I’m thankful for it. I’m thankful for having done the MBA, because even though I can’t quantify exactly how much of my success can be allocated to it, I know it didn’t make me any worse, and from a financial perspective will have a very short payback period. On orientation day, the school welcomed us and said an MBA can be beneficial to people if they want to Advance their career, Change their career, or start a business. Like you, I am skeptical about the first and third reasons, but for changing careers, especially if it is something that I adjacent to what you do today, I know it can work. An MBA isn’t meant for a wanderer, it isn’t meant to give you purpose in life, it’s meant to educate you on business principles and best practices. If you think of it as a retreat from reality or a reset button to your career, it likely won’t work for you. If you are looking for help, please share more details about your current situation and what you hope to accomplish by doing an MBA or PhD program, that way others can actually share their thoughts on how you can get there.
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