Admitted to Darden as a future year scholar which I am very grateful for, but my dream school is GSB.
I applied to both deferred round and was interviewed at both but ultimately rejected by GSB. There's probably a number of reasons why I didn't make the final cut at GSB (lower GMAT score, working for small company, non-target undergrad, etc.), but I still love the idea of going to GSB. Hence the following conflict:
Do I go to Darden in 3 years, or apply to GSB/other M7s in 3 years with Darden as the backup?
Here's some more background info, thoughts, and assumptions for your consideration:
- Currently I'm an electrical engineer (consultant)
- Post MBA I ultimately am interested deal structuring/M&A. I figure going into PE will be the best introduction to these topics
- I am also interested in consulting, but my impression is that deal structuring/M&A has the potential to be more lucrative at the higher end of the distribution
- My understanding is that Darden places consulting very well, but doesn't place PE
- Although Stanford doesn't place many candidates in consulting, I assume that's because they have other options with PE/VC and opportunities in entrepreneurship
- If I strive for GSB I will likely have to retake the GMAT (got a 720 when applying deferred round)
- I will likely have to pivot jobs to a more well-known company in the short term to go for GSB
- Darden seems to be on the up-and-up in the rankings this year and esp with the recent $100M donation I wouldn't be surprised if they make appreciable improvements on the USNews ranking this year
- GSB has a better brand, but not too big of a difference between the two schools in terms of lifetime earnings ($8.5m vs $8.2m avg)
Let me know if any of my thoughts/assumptions are wrong, and what angles you all would take on this decision. I have also asked people individually this question and I'm getting wildly different answers, so I thought I'd ask this community (which is very informed on the topic.) I would appreciate perspectives from anyone in PE, deal structuring/M&A more broadly, or from people associated with GSB/Darden.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
Without pre MBA buy side (PE / VC) experience, it will be very hard to pivot into PE / VC after MBA even at Stanford. Although there are people who did MBB consulting and then went to Stanford and then made it to buy side. Maybe the best way is to try move to a bigger brand firm with strategy consulting role. Another route is traditional IB+ PE route pre MBA - but might also be hard due to IB’s very structured recruiting. But agree with your approach!
Would rather shoot my self in the face than get a Darden degree.
MBA in general is also generally a questionable decision but unless from Stanford or Wharton or Harvard - it is unbelievably idiotic.
Darden will send you back to consulting with $250k in debt + not earning salary for 2 years and will put you 2 years behind in your career.
The days where people are promoted for a piece of paper that says I know accounting and marketing 101 are over. Promotions are now mostly through producing actual results.
@MBA admissions reading this post — you’re better off teaching something else more intellectual than marketing 101 — maybe feed these people some political science/sociology/philosophy since AI will automate most of the quantitative boring stuff and we will add value in the future from creativity.
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It seems like you're not really a finance type, so I'll go ahead and let you know that no one on this forum is going to read this comment, especially considering that general facts and statistics don't matter in the world of high finance. Duke, JHU, and UC Berkeley are all ranked higher than Dartmouth for undergrad, but no one on this forum would ever tell you to chose those over Dartmouth for finance. Any statistical figures you pull up are irrelevant.
Next, browse this forum, for PE, an MBA that is not from HSW, it's virtually worthless and doesn't make sense. Darden is not even an M7 and it's undergrad brand is stronger than it's MBA brand.
It's extremely difficult for people who have PE experience at non-HSW M7s to get top PE shots. It's also difficult for those with PE experience at HSW to land post-MBA PE roles. Even at H/S, unless you're a gay, black, trans woman, landing a post-MBA PE seat is basically impossible because there are too many MBA candidates with PE experience and candidates with enough work experience to qualify for senior ASO/VP level roles that it makes no sense for them to consider someone with no experience.
Thank you for this lmfao - OP is soft pussy and has 0 clue what he/she is talking about as it relates to the world of finance. I regularly throw Darden MBA resumes in the trash with a smile on my face.
Non target scum.
I'm not in high finance whatsoever but am merely considering it post MBA. Like i said I'm a engineering consultant, a world of difference. Thanks for the advice, it sounds like its absolutely necessary that I go HSW if I plan on this route.
Just echoing the sentiment above, but to further elaborate why in finance (especially PE), it is HSW or bust:
Let's assume few scenarios that one might have, and put a qualitative analysis on the chance that one might break into MM PE fund and above after your MBA:
1. IB > Megafund PE > HSW - Very high
2. IB > UMM/MM PE > HSW or IB > Megafund PE > M7 - High (for the latter, you are only competitive as you have MF experience)
3. IB > LMM PE > HSW - Average, most likely MF or UMM will discount your experience at LMM depending on the firm
4. IB > HSW - Lower than #3, as you do not have experience in PE but potentially can land roles in MM and LMM through networking
5. IB > M7 - Low
6. Non high finance role > HSW - Very low
7. Non high finance role > M7 - Very very low
8. Non high finance role > Non-M7 - Toughest
At least in my opinion, if you do want to break into and stay in PE the long term, I would suggest going for HSW or M7 and go to IB first, and the recruit out of IB as an associate to MM PE or LMM PE. That would set you up with a highest chance of breaking into PE landscape compared to your original plan, which would be certainly tough without significant external influence (your dad is PE's client, you golf with Head of IB at JPM, etc.)
Thanks for your advice- I'm going to try for HSW again.
One thing about Harvard & Stanford placing well into PE . . that's mostly because they get a huge number of folks who did PE pre-MBA. So it's a big selection bias. If you look at their success rate in place folks into PE who didn't do PE beforehand . . yes I'm sure its still better than other schools but probably still so low that you have to wonder if it's worth it. Like who really cares if they take your odds from 3% to 6%.
I think you should still go for it. If you're this interested in a particular school 3 years before attending, and you already have the time savings of a good backup in Darden, then you can really focus your efforts on Stanford which will probably come through in your candidacy.
I dont' want to respond to anyone in particular because people get fired up on the topic of schools. But "HSW" is a bullshit tier that some Wharton folks made up. Ask anyone who's gotten into H or S whether they'd have even considered turning it down for W. Outside of some special case (huge scholarship difference or something) the answer is no.
Before W folks get mad at me, let me say that W is also in its own tier above the best of the rest (Booth, Kellogg, Columbia etc etc). Almost nobody turns down Wharton for one of those. Now I've got everyone mad at me, yay.
I agree that Wharton is a tier below, I mentioned it in my second comment that I've seen ASOs with MF turn down Wharton. I was just adding it for the sake of simplicity.
Wasn't directing it at anyone in particular, just didn't want candidates thinking they're on the same level. I've know a good handful that only apply to the top two.
Agree W is half tier below, but cross admit shows ~30% take W over H, not a super small amount. For reference, over 75%+ of cross admits also take H/S undergrad over Princeton/Yale undergrad.
Thanks for that background. Where do you find those stats?
30% sounds high to me vs. the anecdotal data. Just today for example, one of the busier threads on WSO is one talking about PE admissions to H/S this year. No mention of W. I realize of course that's just PE but you get the point, if there's contexts where people don't even mention W then it becomes harder for anyone to consider W on the same plane.
1) You don't need to make this decision now. Congratulations on your Darden admission! Feel good about that and also feel good about the fact that now you have a few years to figure out what you actually want to do with your career. Maybe three years down the road you'll decide you don't want to do PE. Maybe you'll decide you don't want to go to business school at all. Maybe your dream of GSB will remain. Go take a GMAT prep class. Take the GMAT again. You have the luxury of time here.
2) It is very difficult to break into PE from Darden and it's also very difficult to break into PE from any MBA program without prior experience, as others have said. It is not impossible. I went to Darden and got a job in PE after graduation despite not having prior investment experience but I am absolutely the exception and not the rule. It requires a huge amount of networking outside of regular recruiting because, as has been said above, GPs don't come to Darden to recruit. It also will require an exceptional amount of hard work so that you'll have a resume and profile that's appealing to GPs if you don't have a PE background. If you don't have a finance background at all, then you're likely SOL. Finally, you'll need to have some luck on your side. It's roughly 0-2 people per Darden class who end up going straight to PE after graduation.
3) For just about any other typical career path coming out of business school, Darden will be just as good as any M7. MBB consulting, bulge bracket IB, FAANG tech jobs (or whatever the current acronym of the month is), you name it, you'll do just as well at Darden. The dean has put a huge emphasis on making Darden more competitive in the rankings and has done a nice job there. It obviously doesn't have the name brand of HWS but I think from an educational perspective and a career placement perspective, it's on par with just about anyone else. As you noted in your original post, lifetime earnings between any of these top business schools are roughly equivalent.
Similar decision. Mind if I DM you?
Sure. Post with your username and I’ll PM you.
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