What makes you ding someone on networking call
Question for people in the industry. What makes you ding (or recommend someone) on a networking call? If it sounds too scripted or if the questions aren't specific enough?
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- not organized (in life or in the call/meetings)
- asking the wrong questions/irrelevant topics
- having no clue at all. It's ok to not be super smart or knowing every single bit. But I hate when people ask me "What do you think I should do with my life?"
- having absolutely unrealistic expectations (I want to become CEO of GS, but hasn't even finished high school yet). Good to have goals, but be somewhat realistic. It is extremely unlikely that someone becomes a CEO at a top tier firm. Not impossible, but very rare
- lying. obvious lies that can't be true at all. I am trying to help you, not listen to a story that has no relevance. If you are really that wealthy and have all those family connections, then why even ask for ideas/help/support?
- a lot of young people are driven by money, not the work/effort/success beforehand. Get it out of your head that money solves all the problems you have. If you need money to land a girl, be interesting, or feel value inside of you - you are not getting it. I had the best girls, life and friends when I had nothing!
What do you mean by asking the wrong questions or irrelevant questions? Can you give an example?
Genuine interest. As some who has made both bad and good networking calls and gotten some feedback here and there, the calls where I have deals that I think are interesting and want to ask about or where I have follow up questions to their answers and we go down rabbit holes tend to yield the best results. Interest can be pretty hard to fake and can be the difference between a call that ends up running an hour long and ends in a "let me know when you apply and I'll push your resume to the right people" vs a dry 15 minute that no one gets anything out of.
I'm just an intern so have not sat on the other side, but as someone who had to work on their networking a bit, this was the missing piece for me that helped me land interviews.
how do you bring up their deals and ask good questions about their work without knowing too much about it?
Do your research. Know about some big deals in the sector and current trends. Ask how these trends are affecting deals. After the banker explains a deal, follow up with a question (ex. how they thought about strategics vs sponsors, why they divested one part of a business instead of selling the whole)
This might take a bit of googling to know what the company is while they are answering, but good intuition will probably work as well. It also helps to have some background in M&A so try to have a good idea of what they will be talking about before going in. By this I just mean understand the mechanics of a deal, why firms do M&A, how/why PE firms buy a business, you get the idea.
Reasons I don't recommend someone
- Start off the call asking for an internship/full-time opportunities
- Start off the call asking when they will start their internship/full-time opportunities
- Don't ask questions about me or the firm
- Poor attitude
Reasons I recommend someone.
- Took time to get to know me and the firm
- Ask follow up questions to my responses
- Starts off the call setting up an agenda
- Sends a follow up
Note: you don't need to make this call a formal meeting. However, telling the person why you reached out and what you want to talk about can set a good tone.
Question: When recommending someone say after they send the follow-up, will you notify the person or just refer them without notice? I would assume the latter as you don't want the person to only do these things in order to get a referral.
I had this question as well
I may be misinterpreting the question, but I typically refer someone by making an intro via email. I'll say something along the lines of "Hi (name), thanks for your interest in our firm. Please meet my VP who works out of our SF office. VP please meet (name) and see their resume attached. I will let you two coordinate a good time to chat.
Thank you"
I do this to help but also put next steps in other people's hands. In most cases, other bankers will do this when referring. IF you don't hear back, but they said they'd make an introduction, kindly follow up.
If I am asked to chat by someone looking to get into the buyside, I usually ask them to give me some questions before the call so that I can be prepared.
Just don't be the guy who asks for a networking call but prepares absolutely nothing to talk. So offputting.
Going to rant a little bit here... I get really annoyed when they call you and ask "What is your day-to-day like?" or "What kind of skills do you need in IB?" At this point there are countless resources online (WSO, Youtube, or GOOGLE!) that outline these in fine detail. Research specific group or industry the person is in and make genuine connection instead of going through stock questions listed on wikihow...
A bit of a silly question - wouldn't you say industry questions are also just things you can google? I spend my networking calls introducing myself, asking about the person and their journey to where they are and any advice they would have for someone like me who wants to get to where they have. Would you say this is the wrong approach? I'm very new to this because I'm trying to make the transition from the UK to the US via grad school and the UK never really needed as much networking, my offer was pretty meritocratic
You can also google that stuff, but the answer quality can often be better from ppl in the field than online. For example, "what's your day-to-day" is stupid because their perspective will just be a slightly worse version of what you can find on wso/youtube as smaller sample size.
Comparatively, if you ask them specifics regarding the industry and their outlook, you might actually get a sense of what seniors in the industry think about the opportunities, compared to just random thoughts from interns/prospects on this site +1ing stuff that fits with their preconceived ideas.
Reasons I do get impressed:
- Ask very reasonable questions, and try to explain what he / she is looking for; generally, if someone cold approaches me, I only respond if the intial message is very specific and I can help
- Took time to read my LinkedIn profile, and ask tailored questions
- I often ask for the questions / agenda beforehand - so I know the person will put effort. Occassionally, I would cancel the call if I do not receive those...
- Teaches me something - I cover Tech but there is loads of tech everywhere ;) so I love people who can for example nudge me to a new trend or new ways of looking into things - especially if they follow-up after with intro or article - it is never too early to become a connector
- Sends a follow up that is really tailored, and keeps me updated about his / her next steps
Reasons I don't recommend someone:
- Limited time invested in learning about me - my LinkedIn profile is quite extensive, and there is easy way to tailor questions
- Immediately ask about internships / full time - processes became much more complex, and single recommendation is not that important anymore for just getting the interview
- Don't ask questions about me or the firm
- Setting up time that is not convenient for them - any background noise or difficulties hearing - just find good place to conduct those calls
- Expectations that I can help from the very first call
Reasons I ding a kid: emailed me on the 4th...
One of the biggest dings for me is not knowing your own resume cold. For instance, if I ask you questions about a case competition on your resume, you should know the outputs of your case, company’s business model, etc. Fumbling through an answer tells me you are not prepared or you are overselling your experience, neither of which makes me want to put your resume in front of someone.
Bombed a final round interview this way. I agree, know it cold. I got asked detailed questions about valuations to the exact dollar amount from a competition I did 3-4 months prior to the interview process. MD ripped me a new one and was looking up details about the business model etc (this company wasn't in his coverage but the interview thus far was going badly and I tried saving it with the mention of the case comp being good experience with understanding what bankers do).
If that MD happens to lurk on here, I'm sorry to have wasted your time as I honestly didn't expect the interview to be more technical than behavioral (largely due to how I steered the conversation).
Hi I'm the MD, your apology is accepted.
Not about a networking call but a cold LinkedIn message I got a few days back asking for a call. The guy not only got my job title and firm wrong (thought I currently worked as an analyst at a PE shop I finished interning at 2+ years ago) but also straight up asked me to refer his resume for the PE firms recruiting process. At the very least make sure you read the person’s LinkedIn correctly
How to be better at chats 101
1. Be a normal person
2. Thats it.
They ask me questions that they can get an answer from Google. They seem unprepared and don’t understand what the industry entails.
To keep it short, if the person just doesn’t seem like a hustler and understands what they’re getting themselves into I’m gonna ding them. If they’re calling me just to learn about investment banking I’m going to ding them. Call me hardo but you should know better to understand that when someone answers (especially a junior who works 24/7) you better be prepared and not waste their time. This isn’t the time to chat and learn. It’s a time to sell yourself so I can push your resume forward to an associate.
How important is it that the person is technically fluent? If they show that they are enthusiastic about learning is that enough or would you ding someone for not asking you a technical question about a deal? My background isn't in finance so I'm scared I'll fall short of people who know a lot.
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