Is there value in a varsity athlete?
Hey guys, I'm currently deciding between undergrad colleges for a potential career in investment banking or consulting, not fully decided yet but dead-set on business and finance. Costs all being equal, is it better to go to a target undergraduate business school (UVA/Georgetown/UMich), or play a varsity sport at a solid NESCAC (Middlebury/Amherst/Bowdoin). Obviously the college experience themselves are quite different which I understand, but from a career perspective are you more likely to succeed with the varsity sport network from a smaller school? Or are you better off getting a business-specific education and on campus recruiting?
If you can go to Amherst, go to Amherst.
never knew that amherst is good for finance - felt like they're more STEM focused. would say williams and midd are the best
Second this, Amherst/Williams place incredibly well, and the recruiting process isn’t nearly as competitive between students at the same school, lots of alumni willing and able to help (especially for specific sports teams).
Second this, Amherst/Williams place incredibly well, and the recruiting process isn’t nearly as competitive between students at the same school, lots of alumni willing and able to help (especially for specific sports teams).
Third this. Amherst is a step above the other two NESCACs in your post and worth attending, especially if you'd be an athlete there, but even if not. Bowdoin and Middlebury are more arguable vs. the undergrad business schools you mention and come down to preferences and fit.
I have not broken in yet so take this with a grain of salt. I would say be a student-athlete. Even disregarding the obvious networking advantage and specialized programs for athletes. Being a college athlete is something you can only do once in your life while those careers will always be an option even if you don’t break in out of undergrad. I was faced with a similar choice and would have definitely regretted not being an athlete even if it meant I wouldn’t end up in a career like banking or consulting.
No, Tony Soprano never had the makings of a varsity athlete and he ended up being boss of his own family!
Small hands, that was his problem
Don't mind him, he's just breakin' balls.
Athlete at NESCAC > run of the mill student at the unis you listed. Main reason is that you aren’t missing out on recruiting opportunities that a Gtown or equivalent has if you choose the NESCAC. Additionally, you will forego opportunities that only come from being an athlete at an elite school, e.g. PE at TJC (one example of many).
What makes those opportunities only available for athletes?
Honestly, beats me. Athletes are a tight network and some groups hire athletes exclusively. Take a look at TJC’s linkedin page and try to find an associate who WASN’T an athlete in college. Here’s a previous thread about athletes, there’s even a comment about NESCAC athlete presence on the street: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/investment-banking/athletes-in-ba…
it’s more impressive tho to be at a NESCAC and not a total virgin
No
Correct.
NESCAC athletes recruit really well and you would get to experience being a college athlete in a sport you probably enjoy with likeminded people. I would take the NESCAC offer.
As a athlete at a New England state school id 100% go to NESAC as an athlete. Great placements and makes a serious difference in interviews. During most interviews my interviewers just kept asking about my sport and it really makes for a great talking point and will set you apart from traditional students. Also the college athletics grind is something you don’t wanna miss!
It depends on what you want personally and the network of your team.
Fit:
It really will depend on your personality and whether you want to be the big fish in a small pond or a small fish in a big pond. There’s really no wrong answer as long as you’re making an informed decision that fits your personality and values. I’d recommend thinking this over based on your life experiences to get an idea of where you’re at then asking a handful of people you trust what they thought of your process and if they could add any additional information given what they know about you.
Benefit of being an athlete:
It really depends on how strong the network of your specific team or athletic department is. If they have good relationships with former athletes and they come back to recruit or are passionate about helping people out then it’s a positive. If your school doesn’t do a good job of having good relationships with former student athletes and they don’t come back to recruit former athletes it’s probably net neutral given the university you will be going to is respected.
The best way to check this out is to reach out to a handful of former athletes (not just the ones at the places you want to work) and get their candid feedback on the school. In my experience the guys that are 3-5 years out are the most helpful given they’re not necessarily fresh out and won’t fear any blowback from the coach (very real concern).
Caveat:
The one area this could potentially hurt you and I will caution you on is how you frame your story in networking. I played D1 ball at a powerhouse program (think UGA football/Vandy baseball/Kentucky basketball) where we competed for national championships in front of tens of thousands of people. Our games were on TV every week, people around the country knew who I and my teammates were (was a national recruit in HS), and many of the guys I played with are now in the NFL/MLB/NBA. As a NESCAC athlete you and I are not even in the same galaxy so if you try to sell yourself as some big man on campus type athlete to guys that played D1 ball you’re going to get dinged and laughed out of the room.
The reality is that Division 3 athletics are not competitive and anyone with average coordination that isn’t obese can play them. If you were to go to Michigan for example there is a very really possibility that the frat stars on the club basketball/baseball/football team would wipe the floor with a NESCAC team as many of those guys had low level D1 offers/D2/D3 offers but wanted the Michigan experience. That being said if you genuinely wanted to play your sport for the passion of the game that in my opinion would be a reason to go play ball at a NESCAC type school. You’re not going to get extra bonus points for playing 4 more years of what amounts to basically a club sport and be viewed in the same light as the D1 guys. In many ways you’re a student athlete in name only and won’t be viewed in the same ballpark as the D1 guys.
The last thing I will leave you with is that you should be very wary of your coaches for the most part. At the NESCAC level these guys might actually be decent human beings who want what’s best for you but my experience at the D1 level these guys are modern day mercenaries. I’m fortunate to have come from means so I could see through the bullshit but I regularly saw teammates from low income backgrounds get screwed over by their position coaches. Rather than seeing the situation for what it was many of these guys would get lured back into staying for another year and getting a BS masters degree or to work for minimum wage as a grad assistant. Once these coaches used these kids up they sent them back to where they came from where they end up working dead end jobs at places like enterprise or rent a center making $20/hour.
Lol at the D1 vs. D3 take. No shit dude - who would try to frame it that way?
That said, to make it clear for OP, the time commitment for D3 sports is still significant especially if you are on a top 10 team in the country (which NESCACs are competitive in most sports) and shouldn’t be compared to a club sport. Sure, compared to D1 it’s a club sport… depending on the sport. The people within the network that it opens for you definitely will know the time commitment and it will buy you bonus points.
You’d be surprised D3 kids are some of the biggest hardos out there.
I went to HS with a Punter that went from D3 to a backup walk on punter in the Sun Belt at a place like Jacksonville State. Upon transferring this guy would post on all his socials including LinkedIn about being a #D1Athlete and call up local businesses asking for NIL money. He even set up an NIL store with merch. I seriously thought about donating $100/month and buying a shirt as a joke anonymously but didn’t pull the trigger, which I now regret.
I can guarantee you this is going on at other programs in D3. If you don’t know him lookup a guy named Billy Football who interned at Barstool and played at either Williams or Amherst. All he’d talk about was working out but wasn’t in incredible shape or putting up impressive numbers in the weight room and would challenge and get aggressive with a bunch of NFL guys to try to prove how good he was. Dude always embarrassed himself and looked like an ass.
Playing D3 sports is like being the worlds tallest midget.
go to midd or amherst
yeah bowdoin seems to only be placing at MMs
Former Amherst/Williams, currently at EB (PJT/EVR/CVP). And no, I'm not on LinkedIn, before you even try. If you are an athlete at Amherst, you will fare much better in recruiting than a non-athlete at the schools you listed. Midd and Bowdoin aren't nearly as strong, but you can still place very well. Firms have always valued a college athlete with additional interests and experiences outside finance--which going to a LAC will allow you to explore. Amherst alumni network for recruiting is 10x better while being 5x smaller. I have coworkers from Wharton/Ross who get 20+ emails a week, I get MAYBE 5 and respond to all of them, chat with all of them when able. Sure, I'm biased, but I have found that all of my Wharton/Ross coworkers envy that I was able to enjoy college, not waste my time in IB/Finance clubs, and still end up at the same firms. Off the top of my head, current sophomore athletes whom I have spoken to from Amh/Will have accepted offers at PJT NYC, EVR NYC, MOE, LAZ, and just about every single BB. Very different college experiences indeed, but for someone who didn't want to spend my college years kissing ass and pretending to be an expert about a job I had never worked, all while playing high-level college sports (NESCAC is very strong), it seems like an easy choice. Just my two cents
Did you ever feel like you were missing out on on-campus recruiting? Or is that pretty irrelevant nowadays
it is really relevant bro do not listen to him. i'm a dude recruiting at a nescac school above rn
Can’t speak for other nescacs but Amherst and Williams absolutely have on campus recruiting for EBs and the bigger BBs. Not sure where the misinformation started, it might be because they’re not as formal and announced because they’re not business/finance focused schools.
One of my big "what-ifs" in my life was not going to a NESCAC for soccer. If I could do it over again, I would go for it!
The three LAC's you mentioned place pretty well in IB and more so for athletes from those schools. Unclear whether the undergrad b-schools you mentioned offer any additional advantage at all . . if they do, it would be a small one. Wouldn't trade the unique experience of spending four years on a team for such a small/iffy benefit.
Varsity Athlete no doubt. Those are 3 great schools you listed to play at.
Reasoning:
1) Life Lessons (Injury, Defeat, Wins, Playing Time)
2) Discipline & Structured Schedule
3) Competitiveness (Similar to that in banking)
4) You make friends for life and have an automatic group in college
5) Looks great on a resume
What I will caveat that with though is make sure you truly love your sport. I played varsity athletics in college as well. I leveraged it during my interviews and very likely is why I got the job coming from a non-target. If you don't love your sport then you will quit especially at that level. Tough truth, but honesty. If you want to talk more just message me. I went through it all.
One more addition, athletes look out for athletes. Especially in recruiting! You will find out what I mean.
As an athlete, this^.
The amount of resumes we get with 4.0s and this club and that club… being an athlete cuts right through all of that. The time commitment to play a sport in college is significantly more than any of those clubs. If you still get good grades while have 6am lifts and 3 hour practices everyday of the week while studying on bus rides back from games… shows a lot more about a person.
Honestly, any of those universities would be solid, just don’t play sports. The extra time you need to keep a high GPA, study technicals on the side, network, etc. while you are in school will be eliminated by the time spent on college athletics. If you need athletics to get into a top university then by all means, but I would recommend re evaluating continued participation after Freshman year.
Wow man… it’s almost like there’s more to life than landing a job in IB
Just get better at sports and go D1
I'm a current athlete at an Ivy League, and it definitely has helped for networking and connections, was able to get my sophomore year internship through it. It may be smaller at Division III schools, but I assume there would still be fairly strong networks.
How about: go to UVA or Georgetown and walk onto to the team for whatever you play.
If that doesn’t work out, you can be Diddy’s drug mule.
I don't know why atheletes are favored? way easier to get into a top school as an athlete. Especially for some bs like squash or rowing. Coming from someone who was a 3-sport varsity athlete in high school and state champion, I don't think it should matter for firms. Only thing is the kids tend to be less hardo
Resilience and professionalism. Academics-only high achievers haven’t always dealt with putting up consistent effort in the face of periodic losses and setbacks, depending on where they went to school. Any good athlete has to bounce back from losses constantly, has trained through pain, etc. That’s the main reason athlete signals something. And depending on the sport, playing your position and contributing how team needs dictate, versus just managing to your own ambitions. Nothing else about sports matters much, certainly not how well you throw the football or swing a club. Except for PWM sales?
You can tell whether someone was an athlete or not based on how they handle criticism. The analysts on my team that weren’t athletes cripple under the pressure of the slightest criticism from a senior. The athletes, take it on the chin, remember it, adjust and work harder/better. And I think that has a lot to do with their experience of getting criticism from coaches and they don’t take it personally. 
agreed
As a former college athlete myself of a mainstream sport (not rowing/golf/etc.), I noticed that it was brought up a lot by recruiters and HR personnel when I was recruiting for roles for the first 3-5 years out of school. It teaches time management, drive, excellence, dedication, leadership, and teamwork that is needed to reach the heights of a college athlete. If we are being honest, a lot of Ivy league schools and target universities are not extremely difficult to get admitted to (we all know Legacies get in all the time or the person who got a 4.0 in high school without needing to be too smart for it). You'll have hundreds of thousands of kids graduate from target and semi-target schools every year that all want to have the select high-paying jobs. However, most of them will not have played a sport or done anything outside of a club or two that doesn't really require much work to join. Employers want well-rounded people that they know are competent and qualified, and not everyone graduating out of the top universities are either let alone both.
i'm probably just old and cranky, but being a d1/2/3 athlete is whatever and employers generally don't care. Generally only other ex athletes care. I know i'll get monkey shit for my take but it's really that simple. if interviewer is a huge nerd, then no, it's not a benefit. if he was an athlete, then yeah. but that applies to everything e.g. people like people who are/were like them.
i'll take whoever can do the job the best, and that's a combo of hard work / grit and smarts. i'll give edge to athlete all else equal if i'm interviewing someone, but not that impactful. And no one cares you played college sports once you're 25+ anyway.
I’m one of the above athlete supporters (as an athlete) but this is also a completely fair take. Audience matters.
I'd base my decision on where you think you'll be happier, don't think about this from a career standpoint. Both scenarios will set you up well for IB recruiting. A traditional college experience at UVA/Georgetown/UMich is so different than a small liberal arts college. They both have their pros and cons, but I don't think one will necessarily give you an advantage over the other. FWIW I don't give any preference to athletes over non-athletes during recruiting (granted I didn't play a sport in college). TLDR; both paths will get you where you want to be, go with what you think will be a better fit.
A lot of people have made great points about the value of being a college athlete (all of which are true) but in my opinion you should do if you want to because it is one of the most fun things in the world.
As a college athlete you get to play sports with your best friends for 4+ hours a day, shoot the shit, commiserate, etc. and most of all compete physically, which is something you won’t do for a while as a banking analyst, or honestly ever if you work most finance jobs.
My team SUCKED (like 1 win a season sucked) and yes it was absolutely brutal at times but at the end of the day it’s the best thing in the world to hang out with your boys all the time going through the same shit together day in and day out. Once you start working you’ll never get the chance again to play a sport you love with the people you love. As an analyst you sit behind a computer screen for 16 hours a day sometimes doing cool stuff but most of the time doing mind numbing work and wishing you could be back on the field doing fun shit with your friends.
TLDR: being a college athlete is going to be way more fun than just focusing on banking and you should 100% do it
Value is getting laid! Go get laid!
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