Trending Content
Career Resources
WSO Free Modeling Series - Now Open Through
May 31, 2024
9 Free Financial Modeling Lessons
Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling.
+Bonus: Get 27 financial modeling templates in swipe file
+Bonus: Get 27 financial modeling templates in swipe file
Curious as well
Would also be interested to get some info from insiders/people with knowledge.
Judging by discussion with current (and ex-) analysts exits & culture are great but my only concern would be the firm's trajectory after their take private deal
Same here
bump
Well regarded group and still places very well into buyside roles from recent years based on what I’ve heard
Which group? how are the exits / comp?
how are the exits?
Also interested
I'd also love to hear some info
Their reputation is still the same - Great legacy affected by subpar performance in the last decade, coupled with very poor marketing and strategic mistake not to grow.
Exits are still awesome from what I noticed, culture is better than most EBs (esp places like Moelis), and pay is above/competitive with the street but lower than top places (CVP/Q/PJT).
Quick thing to note - when people say that GHL has fallen off a lot it can be a little misleading. In their heyday (late '90s to mid '10s), they were regarded as the top EB alongside LAZ (and later EVR). They were basically what CVP is now. So, falling off from that position is not as BAD as it sounds. Currently, they are probably a mid or low tier EB (somewhere along PWP and GUGG) but it's still a fine and a top place to be as a junior, especially since the Mizuho deal has stabilized the firm.
Would echo the last point. Both GHL and LAZ were regarded back in the 00s/early 10s as THE EBs.
Ironically both firms experienced a decline at the same time, mainly due to the entrance of new EBs such as PJT, CVP etc. Regardless, their legacy won't be canceled, despite their performance in the last couple of years.
Interesting whether it can also happen to firms like CVP or PJT
DELETE
CVP possibly, but PJT/EVR seem less prone to such fluctuations. Both have matured into more stable, institutional frameworks, particularly EVR. What CVP has ingeniously done is to amalgamate elite group heads and senior MDs from leading BBs as partners, making high comp sustainable through its partnership model. However, this model's longevity could be questionable without a perennially booming market akin to the 1990s.
Also, CVP's more cautious approach in general senior hiring and geographical expansion, especially in EMEA, might not directly disadvantage them but proactively investing could propel them further. PJT's insane rx practice and bx lineage, means their longevity could also be on par with evr.
Your point is valid regarding the lasting brand recognition of the firm, and I have a lot of friends there and can vouch for the exits.
However, they seriously do not do many deals at all. Really, look at any league table or just on their company website. Every EB you named blows them out of the water, not even sure if GHL was a top 50 advisor in the US last year. Checked today and I think they have like a billion in volume YTD. They have fallen off incredibly hard from an actual performance standpoint and would never be on the same mega deals you’d see Cvp, evercore, Moelis, PWP on
Leading the league tables was never the prevailing strategy of a firm like GHL. Even when they peaked, they barely used to crack the top 20-30 of league tables.
This might be a dumb question but curious how much large-cap deal flow even really matters for juniors that don't plan to stay in banking. From a training perspective, how different is a say 1bn deal from a 10bn deal? Wouldn't exits/brand be a bigger consideration?
bump
Bump
Target school with no FR yet for NY. Am I dinged?
Class is full
How do you know? Saw some Dartmouth and Stern students sign there but not sure whether class is indeed full
What is with the greenhill infatuation on this site? They haven’t even been top 50 in the last two years
Fair point but their business strategy was never to be a leading firm in the league tables, as exemplified by their decision not to grow (which might have been a mistake).
Even when they were considered a top EB they weren't known to be a firm that churns multi-billion dollar deals like CVP. It's not their model. They mostly focus on providing strategic corporate advisory to large-cap clients (not strictly M&A transactions) with occasional heavy hitter multi-billion M&As.
Greenhill’s brand far exceeds its relevance and it makes the firm a great place to work as a junior banker. PE placement is top tier, hours are far below the street, etc. The compensation relative to hours worked is likely the best on the street.
That being said Greenhill is not the place to work if you are hoping to make a career as a banker - associate and above. They don’t work on large deals anymore; can’t recall seeing GHL on a transaction above $10 billion since Covid, and very few MDs are relevant in the sector they cover, especially in the New York office.
I understand from a few friends who work there that the Mizuho integration is going poorly and the merger appears to not have been well thought out.
This is super helpful. Out of curiosity, would you say the relatively lower hours are due to culture, lower deal flow, or both?
Don’t know enough to have a view there. I would guess it’s circular though, with lower hours begetting poor deal flow which begets low hours.
To be fair, it's not like other comparable EBs like MOE, PWP or GUGG are churning 10bn M&As left and right. It's mostly EVR and CVP that are killing it in that space.
GHL had a very poor 2023 dealmaking-wise, even compared to the general market conditions. However, if you look at their transactions in 2022, 2021 etc, they are similar in size to other comparable EBs if you adjust for the size of the firms.
No they really aren’t. You named PWP, they’ve printed 2 ~13B deals this year. Seriously, go on Factset and look at ghl deals the last 3-4 years. You’ll be hard pressed to find any meaningfully large deals. They literally have a bit over a billion in volume this year
Aren’t they though? When is the last time GHL did a deal above $10 billion? Have the done one post Covid?
Lmao what is this GHL hype comparing to Gugg and PWP lmao. More akin to Rothschild in the US.
CVP is probably the highest Revenue Per Partner (I hear North of 18MM per partner) for FY 2023.
PWP's Revenue Per Partner 2023 FY was 10.13MM per Advisory Partner.
PJT's Revenue Per Partner for 2023 FY was 10.02MM per Advisory Partner.
Out of all the EBs only 4 (CVP, PJT, PWP, and meh Evercore) focus on large cap advisory as their core business model. (See YTD and historical League tables. CVP PJT and PWP always have low volume but always score pretty high.
GHL (I read someone else's justification that their revenue per partner was on par with PWP and Gugg... Congrats on greenhill.) is really just a middle market at this point that isn't super competitive. The only comparable US franchise to GHL is Rothschild. They are LITERALLY comparable as they were the glorious EB/Advisory firms and now are on their way out.
And to anybody reading this. Its probably best for your own interest do do your due diligence on these firms outside of WSO via (Public info (Since all but CVP are publicly traded), asking your BUYSIDE CONNECTIONS. Your buyside connections (vp/principals) will have a better field of view on which advisors are comparable to each other. WSO as great of the resource is is still 85% based on students. It's like how everyone is shitting on lazard here (sure brand dilution is occuring) but literally no one on the buyside discounts Lazard, PWP, or even Gugg (I recall people telling me there are more consistent MF/UMM exits this cycle) against your Moelis, Evercore, Centerviews, PJT GS, etc. whichever firm this forum glorifies.
Plenty of nonsense written here. I actually got transaction data of a couple of EBs (club project, mostly from firms' websites) from '19 to '22. The count for the no. of M&A deals over 1bn are listed below.
Now, keep in mind that MOE and GUGG are the largest of the bunch with a headcount of ~1,000-1,200. PWP has roughly 600-700, and GHL 350-400. This should put things in perspective a bit.
2022
GHL - 8
GUGG - 7
MOE - 20
PWP - 8
2021
GHL - 12
GUGG - 13
MOE - 43
PWP - 21
2020
GHL - 4
GUGG - 10
MOE - 18
PWP - 5
2019
GHL - 9
GUGG - 11
MOE - 17
PWP - 9
The last Time Greenhill was on the league table for top 30 was in 2019.
In 2020 it was ranked 59th with 18.460B of Transaction Value (34 Transactions)
In 2021 it was ranked 49th with 37.79B of Transaction Value (73 Transactions)
In 2022 Greenhill was ranked 49th with 35B of Transaction value (28 Transactions)
In 2023 Greenhill was ranked 68th with 12B of Transaction value (22 Transactions)
In 2024 YTD GHL is 55th with 2.5B of Transaction Value (5 transactions).
It's okay to just say they have a legacy name brand, but its not fair to say that they're still an EB when they are competing with the likes of DC Advisory /Harris Williams...
Firstly, GHL was never aiming to crack top spots in league tables. Even when they were known to be top EB 10-15 years ago, they were would rarely crack top 20/30. Trust me, no one was comparing them back then to MM banks that would usually be positioned in those spots.
Second, if your metric for comparing peers is the position in league tables then you may as well compare Jefferies to EVR, or BNP to LAZ. As per your reasoning, they should be comparable.
Lastly, I'm not sure where you obtained the data, but as per their website GHL completed ~22bn of M&A in 2020, ~52bn of M&A in 2021 and ~39bn of M&A in 2022. I actually got the transaction data across this period for most EBs, so that data is verifiable.
1. Greenhill did significantly larger deals. You're right they weren't a volume shop but they sat on high quality mandates. Now most of their deals are MM oriented. I'm reading GHL's most recent earnings call and it literally says they are have been shifting away from serving large cap corporates to servicing sponsors since that business is more recurring for M&A and restructuring. Which is why now its more fair game to call them a MM and compare them to Rothschild's US franchise.
2. You're right league tables isn't the best way to measure banks from an apples to apples comparison but the GHL, Moelis, PWP and Gugg comparisons aren't good comparisons either. From a business perspective Guggenheim has a balance sheet which Greenhill doesn't so GUGG is more comparable to a Jefferies. Moelis is well diversified and while the deal profile is more akin to GHL (they are UMM/MM focused (with tremendous scale) and they have a very stronger rx practice. Based on this logic, GHL isn't a good comparison to Moelis. PWP's core business model is strategic advisory and large cap M&A. The reference above re: revenue per partner above-- compared to other Partnerships (CVP, PJT, PWP) is helpful because it provides you a lens of how much revenue each partner brings and obviously the higher the number the more large-cap deals they do. You can just read PJT and PWP's (not to loop PJT in but just for an apples to apples comparison) 10k/earnings transcripts vs Greenhill's and you can see their focus/business models are different.
I think GHL is more akin like someone above said with Rothschild's US Franchise. GHL still provides optionality for good exits vs the other EBs, but from a business standpoint alone they aren't as high-hitting as they used to be (Prior to Mizuho acquisition they had balance sheet problems... do you remember?)
Regardless if you get a job anywhere from the set list of "BBs" and "EBs" you should consider yourself really lucky. But IMHO there's a lot of misinformation on this forum and it lead people to making pretty shitty decisions or having an altered opinion distant from reality in finance.
People should really stop bringing up the positioning in a league table for a firm with ca. 400 employees. As someone already highlighted, Greenhill was never targeting to be top 20, let alone top 10 in league tables. Not sure they ever were in top 20, even at a time when they were crushing it in the EB space and their only true competitors were Lazard and Evercore.
On a broader note, folks here should seriously stop splitting hair over whether Perella, Greenhill, or Guggenheim are better than one or the other, or whether one firm suddenly stopped being an EB because some bored WSO members concluded so. They are considered peers by everyone in the industry and by buyside firms (with a slight edge to Perella and Greenhill, given their analysts' track record in buyside recruiting), and literally no one outside of finance will recognize these firms. Heck, even freaking UBS is more known than them, and I'm sure no one picks UBS over these firms.
A little bit confused why there’s been a new GHL thread every 5 days lol…
Here are the facts, do with it what you want. Quick US league table pull trailing 3 years:
Evercore: 762B, 315 deals
Centerview: 583B, 177 deals
PJT: 244B, 105 deals
PWP: 240B, 95 deals
Moelis: 187B, 239 deals
GHl: 38B, 46 deals
GHL's model is a little different though (source: few buddies who did their analyst stint there) as their US office pretty much does execution/handles M&A for their other global offices (unlike EVR or MOE, for example). Thus there is really no point in separating their NA and RoW transactions.
Also, presenting that data knowing that 2023 was an awful year for GHL doesn't do them any justice. That was the whole point of the previous discussions. As shown, if you adjust for size of firms then they are comparable to other firms...
The fact I’m getting monkey shit on that comment, where I didn’t even have an opinion on anything, tells you all you need to know about the GHL shilling going on. Here’s rest of world as well for you bud:
Evercore: 993B, 460 deals
CVP: 696B, 245 deals
PJT: 368B, 146 deals
PWP: 330B, 138 deals
Moelis: 308B, 352 deals
GHL: 79B, 112 deals
Per employee (EVR & PJT lowered by other business units they have so they’re a bit diluted here):
EVR: .45B
CVP: 1.22B
PJT: .368B
PWP: .51B
Moelis: .28B
GHL: .21B
Yeah. The good old no. of transactions & avg. transaction size metrics. Awesome.
1. 2023 was a shit year for GHL, so I'd exclude that year and compare the firms across 5 years.
2. If you judge the quality of the firms by no. of transactions & avg. transaction size, then GUGG, for instance, should be "ranked" higher than LAZ, MOE, or PJT. I think we can all agree that GUGG is a great firm, but not better than the aforementioned (without getting into buy-side exit comparison between these firms).
3. Back in the 00's-10's GHL used to focus predominantly on large-cap deals, that's why their average deal size was like 3bn-4bn back then. PWP, PJT, and CVP followed their model and focused on large-cap transactions too. Since then, I think CVP is the only EB that follows that strategy.
Good god man just give it up. On the “they had a bad 2023 point”, who the hell cares? It’s a sinking ship M&A wise so I’d expect more years like that to come. And here’s the trailing 5 year for you:
Evercore: 1.77T, 733 deals CVP: 1.07T, 379 deals PJT: 675B, 229 deals Moelis: 632B, 577 deals PWP: 457B, 222 deals GHL: 175B, 196 deals
In this same time period, CVP was near the size of GHL, PWP 5 years ago was closer to that headcount as well, and PJT was in its infancy.
I oftentimes forget Greenhill still exists
These Greenhill employees have way too much time on their hands with the negative deal flow
LOL the typical Greenhill haters have woken up. Impressive!
GHL haters and supporters are equally spewing BS here.
Let's start with league tables. If you base your ambiguous "prestige" ranking based on deal volume and average deal sizes, then it would be worthwhile to remember a couple of factors. Firstly, not all advisory assignments are created equal. Oftentimes, bulge brackets would take credit for M&A advisory role, even though their actual role in the transaction was to provide the financing. To please these bulge brackets for more favorable financing terms, corporates grant them the honor of co-advisors on the M&A. Similarly, some EBs or boutiques take credit for large-scale M&As, despite having a very narrow scope of work (special committee work, fairness opinion, advising minority partners, etc.) (PWP used this "method" plenty of times to give themselves credit).
Anyway, this approach can lead to a distorted view of the standing of certain firms. Take GUGG for example. Their average deal size is often in the range of 2bn-4bn, higher than firms such as EVR, LAZ, MOE, or PJT. Similarly, PWP has historically had very high average deal values, but that in and of itself didn't suddenly upgrade their status as a top EB. It was always seen as a fine to very good shop, but never part of the top-tier EB list (in their early days it was always LAZ/BX/GHL/EVR and nowadays it's CVP/PJT/EVR).
Back to GHL, to be frank, in the decade their average deal size has always been between 1bn to 2bn, similarly to LAZ or MOE. They used to be a heavy hitter large-cap focused EB mainly in their first decade of operation, akin to CVP. Regardless, no one was holding that against them a decade ago and it was still seen as a top EB alongside EVR or LAZ.
TLDR of this entire thread - GHL used to be a top EB, but now it's mostly a mid/lower tier EB due to increased competition from new EBs; It's still a great place for juniors if you take into account exits/culture/comp; Disregard disgruntled GHL haters that are displaying league tables - they are mostly irrelevant and no one pays attention to them in the industry. And as a general remark, please do yourself a favor and stop splitting hairs over midrange options. What I mean by it, is that there is some difference between going to an EVR or CVP or PJT RSSG to going to a Raymond James. There is absolutely no difference if you go to any of PWP, LAZ, MOE, GHL, or GUGG. If you are debating between any of these, don't tilt your decision based on made-up WSO ranking. This approach won't take you far in life. Rather base it on the experience you are to get in that firm, your exposure to actual transactions and clients, and the people you are going to face. Trust me, that's worth so much more and it might determine your next job (whether in buyside or not).
You bring up valid points, but the difference is GHL simply is not doing many deals these days. Think about the future post mizuho as well, I can only imagine the remaining productive MDs (not many), will be jumping ship after their comp packages vest. You also took a dig at PWP and they’ve solo advised 2 of the largest 6-7 or so deals so far this year, when has GHL last had one deal like this?
Yes, GHL was the same caliber firm 10 years ago. Today it isn’t. Period.
To be honest, the vesting part is a weak argument. If MDs wanted to jump ship they would have done so already - you usually get bought out by your new firm, regardless of the vesting period
Agreed on your first point. You definitely don't see them on the same headline deals as a couple of years ago (their last true major deals were a couple of years ago, advising on the 45bn DuPont-IFF merger and the 22bn TSYS-Global Payments merger).
Anyway, it's still a fine shop if what you look for as a junior are buyside exits, deal exposure, and decent culture.
This. Pin it and end this discussion
for transparency's sake, do you work at ghl?
No man, I work at some other EB (not M&A, but RX) but got some friends who are or worked at GHL...
Yes, they have been especially struggling this past 1-2 years, but the amount of hate they get from people with zero knowledge or no inside info about the state of the firm is truly remarkable. It often seems like folks here are just regurgitating the same misinformation some clueless prospects are spitting out here
Hasn’t been mentioned, but Greenhill is a far gentler employer than most on the street. Rarely fire, no layoffs as far as I’m aware, etc. Under performers can stick around.
Outlandishly, I heard a well sourced rumor that a junior banker accidentally turned his camera on while fucking his girlfriend on a client call and faced no consequences.
It’s funny because it’s true.
No way this is true... Anyone can confirm?
What do you mean by gentler?
GHL is no longer gentle.
Elaborate?
Ea veritatis voluptatem eaque unde fugit. Voluptatum odio cum architecto fugit.
Mollitia et eius aut neque nihil officiis sit. Quisquam doloribus quis aut a.
Nostrum ut dolorem ut mollitia eos et sapiente. Qui sint occaecati eius. Nam sit dolores rerum quia ipsam qui. Aut vitae ut repudiandae. Hic deleniti odio distinctio optio non. Sed ut inventore eum nam repudiandae facere voluptatum exercitationem. Dolorem iusto rerum eaque.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Recusandae fugit rem placeat sed nam. Ullam natus quasi occaecati rerum possimus nesciunt. Debitis omnis qui et. Quod dolorem illum qui rerum perferendis repellat et.
Nobis sunt atque eos aut. Recusandae sequi tempora quaerat dicta occaecati sapiente aut. Quam sit ipsam provident doloremque magnam rerum omnis. Sit unde exercitationem distinctio dolor recusandae unde cumque debitis. Tempore impedit minima voluptas inventore ab nesciunt doloremque. Hic sit eveniet sequi facere labore autem porro.
Et fugit quo non aut ut omnis omnis. Ex rerum qui nihil officiis nemo eum praesentium quasi.
Nemo ea veniam fugit porro id sed. Tempora velit itaque occaecati quisquam optio. Amet aperiam dicta eum consequuntur. Quo voluptatem repellendus quibusdam vitae magni quo et. Dolor harum impedit cupiditate et eos praesentium qui vel.
Qui nulla veritatis quam sed. Maiores beatae dignissimos ratione dignissimos dolorem a sunt. Libero velit non dolorum similique qui. Porro autem aut vel odit veniam ducimus ipsa enim. Rem nobis quasi minima tempora praesentium. Reprehenderit est adipisci repudiandae.
Ipsam facere molestiae eveniet maxime debitis. Id illo enim et repudiandae itaque illum non. Similique nihil et ab omnis. Cumque enim aut dolore. Ducimus dolores perspiciatis adipisci. Occaecati aut quae omnis et saepe aut omnis.
Nihil possimus a qui molestiae velit illum dolorem. Et eum minus consequatur et sed explicabo architecto.
Dignissimos error alias aperiam ea quibusdam qui. Quibusdam fuga sit est. Quo voluptatem aspernatur quis dolorem possimus quaerat. Aut fugiat nobis velit autem.