Point72/Citadel/Millenium vs JPM/GS/MS S&T
Currently trying to make a very indecisive decision.
At the last stage of Point72/Citadel/Millenium recruitment for their 25 summer for their London office (which means I need to do a masters)
At the same time recruited a couple months ago with GS/MS/JPM with their trading team. However, postponed it to next summer, and they agreed to it, and said that if I get converted I could start as an analyst straight away (in rates).
The reason for postponing was so I could do my current summer at a MM in IBD just to test out what I like the most.
For context, I am studying Economics at a target uni in second year (out of three).
I definitely like the "big office" vibes of a BB but not sure if I should take the opportunity to go straight to buyside given my long term career prospect is comp and wlb.
Any advice would be appreciated!
I think you should turn down both offers. Leave some for the rest of us.
Try to land an offer at Citi Structured Finance or Lloyds LevFin Manchester
What's the meme re Citi structured finance
They have incredible exits like Blackstone Cap Markets (Verbal Offer (Rejected)) and Wasian Capital Management
You need to do a masters?
Yeah. I'm currently in my second year so if I do a '25 summer I need to do a master (or wait a year)
So the question is do I work at a bank or a top hf...... Like are we really having this discussion again. If you get the offer take it.... I dont understand what makes this decision a hard one. I mean this in the nicest way if you're generally considering taking an offer at the bank over a top hf because you like 'big office vibes', im concerned if you would survive on the buyside so maybe just stick to market making....
Thank you very much for the advice. My concern with going straight to HF was that it may narrow down your options too much (specialization). Whereas if you go to a bank your skillset might be more well rounded for a variety of exits?
For "Big office vibes", I meant more about your ability to meet more people. Obviously you are a PM so you've been incredibly successful, but I'm not sure yet if HFs are best suited for me. Any insight is appreciated!
Yes because narrowing down your options to being able to make a 20 million dollars a year by the time you're 30 is so awful..... If your unsure of your ability to perform in the public markets then stay in banking.... All these grad programmes do is speed up the process by a couple years and allow you to reduce the uncertainty in the future about not getting the offer to join a top fund in the future.
This isn’t a like for like comparison. The HF offer is probably for L/S @ P72. If op isn’t good at bottoms up analysis, or can even stand accounting or modelling, it’s not the best bet vs S&T where they can trade a broader range of products.
This isn’t a hedge fund vs bank debate which everyone has turned it too. It’s a macro vs micro debate…
P72 academy is a once in a lifetime chance. Take it
How are you at the last round for Cit/MLP? I thought the applications open later?
Firstly, massive congratulations on your achievements so far. I would first try to figure out what it actually is that you want to do and the current condition or even strategy of that particular shop. The reason I say this is because people will say it would be stupid not to take a top HF offer, but you could be stuck in a position where 6 months after joining, your pod blows up or goes under and your left with no experience in banking and barely any buyside experience under your belt. That brings me to my other point which is that the sellside imo lets you have optionality and job security where you can build a good base skillset in your first two years and decide to go elsewhere or even back to buyside recruiting if you wanted to. I think having that strong foundation before working at a HF allows the transition to be a lot easier if you did want to go to a HF later in comparison to a kid coming straight out of undergrad with just 8-10 weeks of experience. On the topic of wlb, you have to know what type of person you are and you will be under a lot of performance driven-stress on the buyside which might drive you to be better or you might crack under that pressure. I don't want you to think I'm shitting on the buyside but I'm someone that prioritises security and a good foundation if I were to make the move and honestly speaking, you have to really like what you do on the buyside to excel, so forget about the comp aspect for a second because the comp at GS/MS/JPM is good anyway. That's my two cents on it and hope it helps give some insight.
like stocks and accounting/bottoms up = point72
like macro/economy/geopolitics = BB S&T
Entirely different worlds
Lol
I had to make a similar decision to OP and I agree with Anayst 2 in HF - RelVal. Look where people are trying to go... that should tell you something (tbh I was a bit slow when it came to picking it up so I don't blame OP). Sell-side -> buy-side is FAR from guaranteed. And as funds continue to take more grads, the spots on the buy-side for young sell-siders will likely diminish. If you have the opportunity to go buy-side when you graduate, then do it (that is conditional on you knowning yourself like another commenter said - you have to know you WANT this because you love the job and eat, sleep, and breathe markets imo. It's one of those things - if you're not sure, it's not for you... at least not yet. But when you know, you really will know.
Lol @ the below users who are calling clownery. Dudes, I'm simply sharing my experience - that's one data point which OP can potentially help to make a decision. I don't know all the details for these programmes and I never said I did - I'm just out here tryna make my way. Why have people got to be so full of hate these days, c'mon just chill out homies.
You’re a clown
In london, the only 2025 summer app which is open, is Point72 academy.
not reading your stupid essay, they’re entirely different skillsets. Making decisions based on what other people like to do is cuck behaviour. If they don’t want to work in L/S, it’s better to do S&T and move into a macro hedge fund later down the line…again, entirely different skillsets.
It's for Point72 Academy, we're currently doing final round processes for our London office for 2025 summer. We don't do macro internship applications this early, MLP don't offer them (execution trading SA) and Citadel GFI isn't open yet.
Idiocy.
Unless you have a clear preference for macro over l/s as an asset class, the MM offer is a no brainer over S&T - the comparison is quite different vs IBD (there are countless threads on this so I won’t go over it). Your exits out of S&T will be to the exact same platform shops (+ a few macro-specific platforms like BC/BH/Caxton etc) with similar risk parameters in $ terms, there are no prestige whore SMs where you need to go through a different path to get into. So if you are neutral to the asset class (big if) then it’s a simple buyside vs sellside debate. But probably the most important question is do you think you will prefer to trade macro/rates vs L/S, if you do of course go for S&T.
This is a great take, imo. When I commented, I got caught up in the HF vs S&T debate since when I was choosing, both of my offers were in macro (yes, macro MM HF does exist out of undergrad. And yes, I was extremely lucky to get it).
This indeed probably is a macro vs micro debate for OP. I can say from a macro standpoint that they are very different. You'd never catch me in a micro seat at a MM HF - because I just don't fit what they do. I think once you try things for yourself (through trading for yourself as a student) and trying to pick and model stocks vs having a view on rates, FX and other macro products etc, then it'll become clear to the OP what path is for them.
This is definitely not an easy decision, but you have good options. If you like the ""big office"" atmosphere of BB and want to start working straight away as a betting analyst, then it might be worth considering an offer from GS/MS/JPM. But if your long-term career prospects revolve around compensation and work-life balance, then it may be helpful to weigh other factors. Working at Point72/Citadel/Millenium can offer unique experiences and career opportunities in the financial industry.
Those HFs are usually the end goals for traders who start in sell side trading. So depending on what you want to do - if it’s prop trading then go for the HFs, otherwise if you want to only do market making, go to sell side. Comp-wise in the long run, the sky is the limit and you eat what you kill in the HFs. Cons is you might get laid off if you dont deliver profit or beat SP500 as their benchmarks.
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