Hi,
I'm a senior soon to graduate this year in a few months from a mid-tier university. I have a major in Finance and Accounting, with a minor in Math. I've been trading equity options, (including complex strats) for over 6 years now, so I know a thing or two on that end. But I wanted to get a designation and I put in over 350 hrs in studying for the CAIA Level I last September, and luckily I passed it! In studying for it, what really intrigued me the most was the structured products and credit derivatives space. And other than equity options, that's really what I want to pursue now in the secondary markets.
I want to know if anyone here has had any experience with ABS trading (in general), and whether or not they can shed some light as to which desks (BBs, hedge funds, investment management firms, etc...) have the largest scale today. I know a lot of the ABS trading desks got wiped out during the crisis.
Also, if you have experience in the credit derivative markets, I'd like some more insight into that also. Thanks.
I don't have any coding experience by the way (luckily the ABS secondary market won't be entirely automated anytime soon).
Thanks.
Anyone done this before - Trader in credit derivatives (Originally Posted: 04/07/2007)
Alright, I want to be a trader in credit derivatives.
This is my problem:
I have interned in Credit Derivatives Marketing at a BB, and received an offer full-time. However, during rotations, I didn't get to the credit derivatives trading desk and hence couldn't get an offer for CD trading.
Now the question:
If I start out in CD marketing, how are my chances that I can switch and be a trader in CD (at the same firm)? I hope that by doing CD marketing for some time, you gain a thorough knowledge of the product, which then qualifies you for a trading position. Will that plan work out?
THANKS.
It won't. Marketing and trading are radically different skill sets.
Noob questions about trading credit derivatives, ABS, synthetic products, etc... (Originally Posted: 06/16/2007)
Okay, so I know what swaps, CDOs, ABSs, etc...are and I have a rough idea of how they are securitized. What I don't understand is how they are actually traded. I don't have any real idea of how many of these products exist and how liquid or active the market in these is, nor do I have any clue as to where people actually see the prices for these. They certainly aren't quoted in Bloomberg/WSJ/etc...is there an exchange for these offerings, or is it all kind of quietly done and arranged by IBs/HFs?
I know this question is all over the place, but basically I don't understand the actual way of how these are traded.
They trade otc. there is no exchange, you can get a rough idea of standard bond basis rate swaps off bberg and the wsj. to trade you call a dealer and he makes you a price.
THE LOWDOWN ON CREDIT DERIVATIVES TRADING (Originally Posted: 08/17/2006)
Fucking A, I am pumped to start trading some credit derivatives. The stress, the money, the fucking roller coaster, o yeah. Whoever knows anything about this market please give me the lowdown -hours,pay, etc. How does credit derivatives trading compare to M&A -hours,pay,prestige,promotion opps?
How's your real analysis?
never taken it, the farthest i've gotten is yale calc 1, and i dont plan on going any futher.
I don't know anything about credit derivatives per se, but I think that if you want to trade derivatives, you probably want calc up to multi-var, plus linear algebra and probability. Differential equations wouldn't hurt, either. You simply won't be qualified to analyze complex securities without a math pedigree.
If you want to be in finance, it won't hurt you to learn a lot of math. It may not be necessary, but it'll give you more options if you realize at some point that you hate the long hours and ass-kissing of the "soft"/social side.
what is the soft social side
i'm assuming he means corporate finance. That profession where you supposedly meet with Captain's of Industry.
A lot of jobs in finance require very little math or technical talent, but these usually involve a lot of face time and social nice-making. You don't need to have great social skills, but you need to be socially functional under high pressure and in the face of adverse conditions (sleep deprivation, demanding clients/superiors, emotional exhaustion). This is hard. You'll have to be very nice to people you may not like or respect, and it may wear on you.
'credit derivatives' in the plainest sense (ie. cds) is not very math intensive - unless you think addition and multiplication is hard. now if you want to do correlation and structured credit - thats a little bit different. in any event, having a good math background is good.
thats about it - not much different than anything else, except you probably have to know alot about the companies that you are trading (even the indices have some sort of credit underlying)... so hopefully you enjoy reading news and reading research.
i am looking to get into synthetic CDOs. Anybody no what the pay is like?
thanks
pay is the same as every trading job.
Up until the VP level pay is probably the same. At the last year or two of associate and beyond you start taking home what you kill
no its not. thats like saying a public finance banker takes home as much as a corp fin banker. people make much more in structured credit than in straight equities because the spreads are bigger therefore the desk makes more money. as an analyst it may only be a few grand difference but as you progress the difference becomes significant.
Big players in credit derivatives? (Originally Posted: 05/15/2012)
Does anyone know who the big players in credit derivs are these days? I'm guessing the synthetic CDO stuff is dead, but what about CDX, options on CDS/CDX, etc.? All I've heard is JP Morgan used to be really good.
Thanks
This is a poor joke.
I don't get the joke.
terrible. -10/10
holy shit what a terrible joke. 0 stars
OMG one of da worst jokes i ever heard. do urself a favor and buy a new since of humor cuz ur dum
I mean the S&T side; it's not a joke about Whaledemort. Also I'm more interested in corporate credit derivs, not so much the securitized side. Would just like to know which banks have strong credit derivs desks. Legit info would be appreciated.
I hear Drexel Burnhan is a good shop.
OK clearly this isn't going anywhere. If anyone has additional insight, please PM. Thanks
Salomon Brothers does alot of business with Credit Derivatives.
Citi and cs are making money off them
http://m.nypost.com/p/news/business/beaching_moby_iksil_oDczQscW3k4Mz1A…
you guys making jokes about banks that no longer exist are making worse jokes than OP
JP, DB, Barclays
Although a few years back, Fabrice Tourre's Abacus 2007-AC1 deal was avant-garde and a model of sound business practices.
Credit Derivs (Originally Posted: 07/30/2007)
Any of you work in CPDO space in particular?
think I caught a reference in derivatives week, weren't some of these having some big mark to market losses in the past week
What do credit derivative traders do?! (Originally Posted: 11/23/2007)
My understanding of credit derivatives is clearly limited, but I know success here isn't based on "buy low, sell high." Is there even any chart reading? Do these elite traders just do a series of math calculations to determine when to act?
They hit up the club with the snub, don't start nothin' it won't be nothin', uggghhhh
"Is there even any chart reading?" Are you serious man? ...
My star sign is virgo...
.
"My understanding of credit derivatives is clearly limited, but I know success here isn't based on "buy low, sell high." Is there even any chart reading? Do these elite traders just do a series of math calculations to determine when to act?"
All success is based on buy low, sell high.
And two, they're not "elite" and it's not much math.
Credit Derivatives Trading (Originally Posted: 06/06/2013)
Wondering if anyone could offer some insight into credit derivatives trading at the BBs..
Are the hours different than your typical equities/bond desk? Spreads bigger? I'm assuming you mostly deal with CDS and CDOs but does this include IRS too?
Much appreciated!
Don't think IRS would be done on a credit desk. Most credit desks are hybrid bond/CDS desks in the flow arena. Some banks have 2 guys doing cash and 2 doing CDS in high-yield for example, and others have 4 guys doing both. Personally i think cash is more fun but it is valuable to be trading both as it gives you a better insight into what is happening, especially in the more stressed names as CDS is dominated by fast money and will hence be an "early warning" indicator for the bond side of things typically. Don't think CDOs are a lively area anymore, but i might be wrong.
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