top tier mba
I swore to myself that I would never post something like this, but now that I am considering business school I want to make sure I am not completely wasting my time.
Background:
- mid 20s
- undergrad from a top university, 4.0 gpa in math
- 3 years in portfolio management at a top AM firm (think BlackRock, GSAM, JPM AM, PIMCO)
- no real ECs
- haven't taken the GMAT, but I am not worried about it
I don't really have a great reason for wanting to go to business school, I just feel that I will regret it in the long run if I don't go back to school and get some sort of graduate degree. How realistic is a top business school for me (is it even worth the effort for me to apply)?
No offense, but please no high school or undergrad responses
You sound like a stuck-up ass who doesn't deserve to be in a business school :| There are more people in this forum trying their best to apply to a good MBA and if you don't even want it, don't bother applying. Plus, top MBA programs require solid leadership experience/EC and you don't have it, so I think deep down inside you know what to do!
Enjoy your life as it is, meet some more people and fly high Why waste 2 years and waste 200K
Kind of in a similar situation to you OP and this is my take:
If your firm is pays for you and you think you'd enjoy a 2 year "break" then go ahead. I don't know much about portfolio management (consultant here) but now might be a good time to take a bschool hiatus given the economy/markets (?). Maybe even go to LBS or INSEAD and do a bit of travel around Europe?
If your firm won't pay for it then I'd be more hesitant to go, unless you have a clearly defined goal or are pretty intent on career switching and not going back into AM... which doesn't seem to be the case.
Just my 2c.
if you just want some sort of graduate degree, transfer to london and do a part-time masters @ LSE
You say you're in portfolio Management but obviously no firm is going to give a grad control over a portfolio fresh out.. So what are you in, a back office role for PM? Blackrock analytical? And yeah the no EC is gonna make your profile seem very stale rsp considering AM isn't like HF and banking consultin work where your time =0
I do work in PM, I just don't "own" any of my work or have final decision making power. People always assume that AM has a great work/life balance, but from my experience it doesn't. I work more than my friends in consulting, but less than people I know in banking/PE. On average, 60-90hrs per week.
I would say that H/S/W will be a stretch given no ECs and lack of a story for why you want to go to b-school (I'm sure you could make up some credible reasons, but adcoms can probably infer when someone is inventing a reason to go to b-school).
However, given your undergrad and work experience, I'm sure you'd have a great shot at the other schools in the top 10. You seem like a natural candidate for UChicago (quant) or Sloan (doesn't care about ECs, cares about high GPA, GMAT, etc.).
Your original post is obv a small sample size, but I would say you need to be careful to sound humble and make sure you're not coming across as "entitled" to admittance at a top school.
Good luck!
ECs are bs. In bschool, I've worked with more than enough people who had impressively sounding leadership experiences and ECs, but in real life they couldn't do shit when it came to organizing stuff and getting things done when working on a project. Many people that get in are like that - their ECs are some very exaggerated bs about how they tutored orphans and built houses for the poor in Burkina Faso or started some NGO that does nothing. So many of them have started doing that just for the sake of MBA admissions. Others were more practical - they just lied - I know enough stories about people who did that and got into H or W.
I admit that you need bs skills to succeed in business. However, don't mistake ECs for a proxy for leadership - this is the most easily faked and exaggerated crap in your profile, says almost nothing about your real-world performance and abilities, and it's not as important as adcoms say.
I wouldn't let the lack of ECs stop me - just apply to Chicago, Columbia and MIT and emphasize something non-work related you are passionate about in order to look well-rounded.
Nrg are you energy finance guy who went to rice? EC are not bullshit at all just a lot of people don't have good EC to weigh on on their app. And it's not necessarily what your job is but what you did -- and sexier jobs generally allow you to do this more except for example the hsbc teller at HBS. Rock Te GMAT and prolly decent chance at m7 but I think hsw most likely a no go.
Shorttheworld, I never applied to Rice or any school in that region. EC are not bs if you do something because you like doing it. However, most admits have done ECs just for the sake of admission and what you see on their apps is some highly exaggerated crap. And nobody can check what you really did in your ECs or at work, so in this process the best bs-ers usually win. It's the people who cannot present themselves well that lose. And this makes sense as this is what happens in the real business world. My point was that I would not judge someone because he doesn't have an "interesting" hobby like baking banana bread or giving tango lessons to midgets.
N.R.G., I agree 100% with what you're saying. The vast majority of ECs that students at top b-schools have done are either bullshit or grossly exaggerated in terms of impact. I think MBA admissions is the fluffiest and most bull-shit process out there, especially when compared to top med/law/phd programs. I know so many people who did some non-profit or volunteer work just to get into b-school and spun it in such a way that it made them look like noble strong leaders. Lol.
Even with work experience, it's not that hard to exaggerate what you've accomplished if your recommenders go along with your story. There are a lot of people who basically write their own recs because their bosses are too busy and tell them, "write whatever you want" or in my good friend's case he just presented an outline with the main points, and the recommenders went along with it.
The recent backlash among top schools against finance folks has resulted in some hilarious admissions results. I know a girl who got into wharton and kellogg after working for nielsen tv ratings and a guy who got into wharton and booth after setting up a music non-profit. When I asked him exactly what he did, he couldn't give a clear answer and laughed about how the b-school admissions process is such bullshit and can be easily gamed if you know how to present yourself. In sharp contrast, you can't bullshit your way into harvard med, yale law, or harvard phd economics.
One final note. For those applicants who work in a "traditional" field like finance or consulting, the name brand of your company matters A LOT. I cannot emphasize this much. Of course, adcom officers will say that what matters is not where you work but what you accomplished. Total bullshit.
@Quarterlife, DagwoodDeluxe
I posted this after coming home drunk from bars last night, which is why I sound like such an asshole.
OP, you have a very strong profile with regards to grades and work experience. However, your lack of EC's and an interesting angle will make HBS and Stanford very difficult to get into. I think you should be able to get into the other schools provided that you do well on the gmat and get decent recs.
Why do you want to go to b-school? What are your career goals, and what do you hope to get out from an MBA? You should NOT apply unless you have pretty good answers to these questions.
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