MBA/Mfin advice or opinion
Hello,
I have a chance to go to either the Rotman (University of Toronto) full time MBA or the part time masters in finance program. I am 26 years old with an undergraduate degree in finance and about to finish my CFA and FRM designations. Right after undergrad I worked for 2 years at your normal prop firm and then moved to Taiwan for 10 months to study chinese and lived in Bangkok for an internship for 4 months. Ultimately I really enjoy risk management and developing different models and programs to automate calculations and analyze a portfolio. I just moved to Toronto though and am trying to find a job but it is tough to get started out here. I am not sure if I should go for the MBA, due to the career services they have and many companies that recruit from the program, or the masters of finance since it seems more enjoyable and I would have more knowledgeable classmates, in depth courses into finance and the curriculum really interests me. One part of me thinks just the MBA to be guaranteed some sort of shot in the business but another part would prefer the Mfin and hopefully with it find an entry level job through classmates or professors if I had to since lack of career services. This would allow me to wait on an MBA for the future if I wanted to change fields. Any advice? Any one think I would be able to start off in the risk management area or investment business out of the Mfin program or is MBA only realistic way? Thanks for your help
If you enjoy risk management, creating portfolio tools, and automating calculations, it sounds like you want to be a quant or a financial engineer.
There are some people with MSFs working in risk management, but I'm pretty sure a lot of the folks there have financial engineering backgrounds. At the very least, if you get an MFE, risk management is a very, very reasonable outcome, and you might be one of the better people at coding/analytics in risk.
If you have a STEM undergrad, given that I'm hearing that you don't want to be a banker, an MFE seems like an attractive option here. Given your prop shop background, if you have a decent (>3.0) undergrad GPA in STEM and a 165 GRE score, I think Baruch and Berkeley are probably targets. You may also be in the running for NYU and CMU.
My undergraduate is in finance, I just wrote the GMAT to get an idea of what my base was and got 650 on my first exposure to the exam. I talked with some people who seem to think studying can raise it up to 680-710 range, think that is realistic? If I got in that range would those schools possibly be an option?
I'll let IP handle the MFE stuff - he knows far more about that than I do.
As far as your GMAT question, 30-60 points is very reasonable. There are several test prep companies that'll offer your a guaranteed 50 point improvement, or your money back. But really, it all depends on how much time and effort you want to devote to the test.
How much math and programming do you have? Can you post what were the most advanced classes you've taken?
Reason I'm asking is that it sounds like you've done some analytics projects. Most people struggle with that stuff without at least a few formal programming and applied math classes.
Princeton's threshold is probably a 760 on the GMAT. Actually it's probably similar for most MFE programs.
The GRE may be easier for you. You just need a 165Q. It's also cheaper. However, an MFE program is only in play if you've taken enough math classes. Chicago's requirements are pretty standard, and they ask for Calculus (including multivariable), linear algebra, calculus-based stats, and differential equations, as well as a formal programming course. To be honest you can get away with missing one or two of these, but you need to be relatively close.
If you're missing stuff, evening or weekend classes at any local state school will suffice. A state school with a national reputation like U of T, or (for those reading this later) Baruch, Rutgers, or UIC would clearly be acceptable. I am less sure about a community college, but my hunch would be that for a candidate who was showing broad signs of quantitative proficiency, that would be fine, too. Given the FRM, U of T would be ideal but you can probably get away with a community college that fits your schedule if you need to fill in some classes.
I know these test scores seem like tall orders given your initial grade but the prep classes really do help. I got a 1290 on the SATs without ever having seen it before. A year later, after I took a prep class, I got a 1600. Given that you got a 650 without seeing anything before, all that tells me is that you'll probably get at least a 680 after you've studied. It sets no cap on your score.
Did you have to take the SATs for undergrad?
I live in the area and I have been looking around at MFIN programs for a month or so; here are some of my general opinions. I would classify the UofT Mfin as well as the Queens Mfin (not the Phd prep Mfin which is in Kingston) as basically CFA prep degrees that will add very little value if you have already completed the CFA. Look at UofT's MFE instead; it should also give you good access to recruitment.
You should also consider looking at the Schulich Mfin (risk managent track) as well as McMaster's Mfin program which which has more of a quant focus without be a financial engineering degree. The recruitment at McMaster is probably fairly limited though.
Is there a reason we're fixated on U of T here? U of T is a great school and I know a lot of quants with U of T undergraduate degrees. However, many people move for full-time graduate school. OP should not hold himself hostage to U of T's admissions committee (which I'm guessing can be picky)- or to U of T's placement ability (which I'm guessing is strong in Canada but not as strong elsewhere).
If OP were in Asia or Europe, I'd get it, but Cornell (Ithaca) and CMU (Pittsburgh) are driving distance from Toronto. NYC is an 80 minute flight. It's difficult to work FT in Toronto at that distance, but if you have ties to the area, you can drive home any weekend.
If your aim is to work outside of Canada, I think U of T for grad school is a detour for you.
I just made the assumption that the OP wanted to stay in Toronto. Also, and maybe the OP can clarify this, but it doesn't seem like he has the background for a financial engineering degree.
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