What is it like working in CRE in Atlanta
I have a potential opportunity to work in ATL and was wondering what it’s like to live/work in the city. I’m not from ATL and have rarely visited. I grew up in the south east and went to school/worked in the same region (non SEC).
I’d love to hear opinions from those who have lived in the city. Is there good networking groups for young professionals and how’s the work culture (welcoming to newcomers or clicky/not a fan of “outsiders”).
Insights on the city from a personal perspective would be great too. I’ve heard a lot of good about the city when it comes to a career in CRE but also bad on a non professional level (crime).
I’m considering opportunities in other sunbelt cities in NC, FL, TX and AZ. Is ATL the place to be for a career in CRE or should I be looking elsewhere.
The Atlanta CRE community has a big UGA circle jerk. Depending on what your goals are it has good opportunities but defiantly not a long term thing. Brookfield's head recruiter summed it up perfectly "We never have found a lot of Brookfield level talent down in Atlanta." I would call it transitionary at best.
Totally agree that the brokerage community tends to be a bit of a UGA circle jerk, but in my experience the overall community isn't. In Atlanta, I worked with a lot of GT grads, Emory grads, Duke grads, UNC grads, and then other nearby state schools such as Clemson, Alabama, Auburn, Virginia, Florida, South Carolina, etc.
Brookfield's head recruiter sounds like a clown.
Hes a clown why? The SE has never been a hot bed of talent for BX or Brookfield. You sound butthurt
I made the trek down to atlanta from the NE, it's a very different culture, networking is there but it's not as intense as you would find in a Chicago, NYC, San Fran, etc. It's a heavy development area and there's more of an emphasis on construction as well, you get a lot more of the "blue collar" white collar folks if that makes sense. If you're used to southern culture you probably won't bat an eye, but even the "upper" tier schools don't seem to produce the same level of talent as say a SUNY Binghamton does in NYC, more of a nature vs nurture situation in my opinion.
You can still have a great career and rise through the ranks and do some sexy deals, don't let me deter you, I just miss the NE culture. TX may be the best area in the south at this point.
This stood out to me as well. I will say that anyone with any sense of social skills can navigate it easily, but the culture is definitely different from how I grew up - caring about college sports more than pro sports, different racial dynamics, different weekend hobbies, even personalities in general, etc.
You seriously think a SUNY Binghampton fields stronger graduates than the "upper" tier SE schools? What are you considering upper tier and/or southeast?
Forgive me, but I"m having a hard time imagining any of the SUNY schools being on par with a UVA, UNC, UT, UF, or UGA, etc., not to mention Duke or Vanderbilt.
While out of context it seems outlandish, my point is more or less that exposure is restricted in Atlanta compared to a lot of the NE or NYC real estate shops. As with anything, you're limited to your network which can influence your ability to learn and establish yourself as an expert, it's no different than attending Harvard vs Florida State, you are more prone to bump into someone who is more motivated and established at the "higher" university.
What I am suggesting is that the SUNY Binghamton graduate in this case is surrounded by more opportunity and therefore often surpasses the UVA or UNC graduate who is surrounded by people who are used to a different culture. I.E. the nature vs nurture comment. I can understand how this is pretentious if you are not familiar with the differences in markets.
I live/work in Atlanta but am not from the southeast and didn't go to school in the southeast so I don't really have a dog in the fight - this is an absolutely insane and wildly pretentious comment. Give me a break.
Good ole boy culture. Worked at place where people would come in late because they went deer hunting. As a black man it was definitely meh because I wasn’t about their life. Slight Trump vibes as well. As far as work life balance I will say it will be much better than other areas of the country.
Hah, you mean you don't appreciate the wide diversity among your co-workers between "white conservative male who likes Trump" and "white conservative male who doesn't like Trump?"
The south is a weird place. While there are certainly Black people in non-Black firms, it's generally very segregated. Definitely different from how I grew up.
Lol. I’m from here so I deal with it but it’s super annoying tbh. At this point I appreciate what I’ve learned just trying to find my exit out CRE and invest on my own where I can in the future.
The city is like 60% black dude get over yourself
How many of them are in CRE? that’s the important thing.
60 Percent black in the city has nothing to do with the representation of black people in CRE and you know that. So please just get out of this conversation. This is part of the problem I've been dealing with and the reason I no longer want to work in the industry and just plan to invest on my own. I'm tired of narrow minded lily white people. You all have no tolerance for differing point of view even when it's backed by data. It's well documented that less than 5% of people that work in CRE are black. I'm sure your come back with well I know this black person that works here. That is an anomaly not the norm. You also must not be from here cause you would know that there is almost zero presence of black developers north of Midtown. During this last bull cycle none of the brokerage had any black analyst. Not CBRE, JLL, or Cushman. Only place that has representation is of course property management, asset management, and affordable. Other than Integral Group no black run firms develop north of Midtown. So please STFU before you open your mouth to someone that has actually worked and been apart of the Atlanta CRE landscape.
Used to work in the SE, primarily in and around ATL. Will echo what everyone here just said. Very old school boys club. Think white guys that are into SEC football, hunting, and wear business casual shirts/golf pants while driving a F150 pickup. This isnt even a stereotype either, most dress and drive the same thing. Lots of frat guys from UGA and some overflow from Bama. Very heavy construction focus. Definitely feels more blue collar then white collar even in executive level positions.
Crime is getting pretty rough. We had an office in Buckhead, which is the wealthiest suburb in ATL and now its hard to even walk outside there late at night. ATL is an unique city really. Very fragmented demographically, it's probably the biggest African-American cultural hub out of any other city and the grave of MLK, while also having pockets of extremely white areas. Really eye opening experience for sure.
Edit: I should also say theres some really nice and hip areas in ATL too. Midtown has some sweet spots. The ballpark development has been amazing with great walkability. Atlantic Station is amazing. Crime is much less of a concern in the suburbs.
In what universe is Buckhead hard to walk around in at night? Go outside and see instead of listening to the news exaggerate everything.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Buckhead is not what it was 5 years ago. I had the pleasure of living there last year during my internship and it was like Gotham city at night.
Isn’t it going through continued efforts to de-annex from Atlanta?
Thanks for calling out midtown, atlantic station, and the battery as atlanta's hip areas. I now know exactly how seriously to take your comment.
Don’t do it, I’m relocating as soon as I can.
Ditto this. I was there for a little over a year and that was too long. Very good old boy ish which isn’t always bad and a very laid back culture. But crime somehow manages to keep getting worse and worse even in Buckhead which is one of the better areas of the city and traffic is god awful.
Echoing everyone else's comments, huge UGA presence. My entire team is UGA grads except me. Fine for awhile but whenever I go to different markets and see that there's "diversity" (white dudes who at least went to different colleges) I get envious. Everyone has their UGA clique and doesn't need new friends so it lacks the dynamism and intellectual curiosity of larger markets in my experience.
For what it's worth, for those reading, the UGA thing wasn't my experience at all.
Maybe it helps that I'm not from the Southeast, but my experience is pretty different from others here it seems. I interned in Atlanta one summer and then worked full time there for seven years. For the most part, I thoroughly enjoyed my experience.
There definitely are networking opportunities and with the population explosion in Atlanta, it's about 50/50 whether or not the person you're talking to is an Atlanta lifer versus someone who moved there for work. The work culture varies by shop to shop, but this also isn't NYC. People don't jerk off to how many hours they're in the office and in my experience, people like getting out of town early on Fridays.
I came here already taken, but it's a major city - there are plenty of good looking girls of all types. I have also not experienced or witnessed the type of crime people freak out about, but then again I'm not seeking it out either.
Texas is the only one of those you listed that can rival it, IMO. Florida is a weird market, Arizona is awesome but much smaller, and Charlotte is Atlanta's junior cousin.
Disclaimer: I went to UGA, worked in Atlanta, and have since live(d) on the West Coast and in the NE.
This thread is pretty eye-opening. I'm candidly surprised to hear that so many of you don't like Atlanta. It is easily the best market for career growth in the Southeast. I'd put it equal to Dallas (maybe slightly behind) in terms of the best Sunbelt opportunities. Regardless of what anyone here thinks, it is the defacto capital of the southeast. It is 2x the size of the closest SE MSA (not including SE Florida, which is roughly the same size as Atlanta). If you think Atlanta is insular... good luck in Nashville, Charlotte, Raleigh, Tampa, and Orlando.
You can't escape the UGA crowd? Have you joined AYREP or ULI? Both have great networking opportunities beyond UGA folks. Every SEC school has more alums in Atlanta than probably any other city. There are a ton of UNC, FSU, and Clemson folks too. There are for sure fewer liberal arts folks in the business, and that is largely a numbers thing. I'd argue that more people hang out with their high school friends than their college friends, but I never had any problem meeting folks from different schools when I lived there.
While there are a ton of fratty Buckhead people dripping in Peter Millar in the real estate business, Atlanta has by far and away the biggest socioeconomic and racial diversity in the industry in the region (and probably nationally, thanks to gentlemen like Herman Russell, Egbert Perry, T Dallas Smith, etc). I would argue that, outside of NYC, SF, LA, DC, and South Florida, almost every real estate market is generally insular and dominated by folks from certain schools and certain backgrounds (everyone went to the same schools, is WASPy, and belong to the same clubs). I don't think you can move to Atlanta and then complain that the culture isn't like New York... no shit it's not.
The crime thing is so blown out of proportion. People are horrified that there are muggings at Lenox, but that shit has been happening since the doors opened in the 50s. Shit Ray Lewis killed a dude in Buckhead in the 90s... nothing like that is happening now. Property crime in affluent in-town areas is an issue across the US, but because some out-of-town dude tried to create a secession effort, it made national news. Not saying it isn't a problem, but y'all are making it seem like it is Fallujah or something...
Bit shocking to me as well, I gotta be honest.
Overwhelmingly agree with this. I have never once felt unsafe in Atlanta.
Not once? Not even once? Come on now...
Been in Atlanta for 4 years and am from out of state. This comment hit the nail on the head imo.
Also, there is a real estate happy hour tonight at 241 Forsyth St SW, Atlanta, GA 30303 for all you young bucks with no friends
I agree with most of what you're saying and feel the need to clarify my first comment.
For the southeast, yes 100% the best place to be for a career in real estate barring maybe Dallas. I couldn't do Dallas for the lack of any density and completely devoid of interest landscape. 100% agree that CLT/Nashville/Raleigh would be just as insular especially in real estate.
Sounds like the UGA crowd is firm by firm dependent -of the 2 firms I've worked at its been very heavy UGA presence or SEC presence. The other SEC schools are no different to me - everyone brought their pledge class with them and moved here with friends. That's not to say I don't have friends - I have a couple UGA friends I hang out with every once in awhile but the vast majority are from out of state, non-SEC schools, non southeast people. Hardly any of my friends work in real estate too, mainly because as I mentioned previously the SEC crowd are nice fun people but I have never really made a strong connection with one. So maybe this is down to the industry but I keep in touch with more real estate people from the 2 years I was in the Mid-Atlantic (who went to a very high variety of colleges) than anyone in Atlanta.
The original question is should I move to Atlanta for CRE? If that's all you're looking for then yes its a good spot. But there are a lot of cultural limitations that are leading to me relocating independent of the career prospects. Life isn't about optimizing for career decisions all the time.
No doubt, I live in the Mid-Atlantic for non-career reasons... in short, I get it. However, I will continue to reiterate that Atlanta is a great city with a ton of great career options and a bunch of awesome lifestyle amenities. It is an awesome and dynamic city for young people. The quality of life is great, and it happens to be a nice place to raise a family.
I'd hate for people not to consider living in Atlanta because some internet people had a tough time making friends in the industry. Friendships, particularly work-based ones, are about shared interests, whether that be golf, Outkast, fishing, art museums, breweries, nice restaurants, books, fun trips, kids/families, sports, board games, etc. Atlanta has all that shit in spades and then some. You're not going to be able to make work friends anywhere if you can't connect with folks on a shared interest. If Atlanta isn't your cup of tea, to quote the late great Lewis Grizzard, "Delta is ready when you are", and I hope you find the right spot for you (sounds like you should head my way!). However, a lot of people might really enjoy it and find their way a little differently than you or me.
What are the salary plus bonus expectations for Analyst, Associate, Director + in this market for Acquisitions and Development?
This is tough to answer because I know some shops that pay associates 80k with a 50% bonus and some that pay 120k with 20-30% bonus. Do you get to participate? Do you get a deal bonus? I’ll just answer in total comp expectation for the mean, some outliers above and below these obviously.
Analyst- 80-120k
Associate 110-140k
Director 140k+
God damn that’s rough. Is this range true for the more institutional firms? Considering a move to ATL but hard to stomach the comp decrease
In my experience the Analyst and Associate numbers given are spot on but the Director comp is low. It's difficult to say though - different companies pay very differently as he said.
Thanks! Appreciate the feedback
My personal anecdotes:
Brookfield - Low $200s for Associate. Roles are few and far between.
Ares - High $100s for Associate - likely $110k - $130k + 50% or something along those lines.
Jamestown - $100k + 25% for Associate - Development oriented and they play off their reputation. Lot of turnover.
Ares is the only institutional national group down here with the full deal team. There are other groups like Peachtree, ACRE, Ardent, that probably pay well but closer to the op's numbers. PCCP has their asset management team down here and I believe they paid like $80-100k base + 20% bonus when I interview a couple of years ago. That was Senior Analyst/Associate.
I can't speak to the development world but I'm sure there's plenty of comps given the number of small time developers down here.
Good list. There’s also Artemis who’s around 200k for associate. Also tons of more regional/local firms in ATL.
Thanks for the detailed info. Surprised at Jamestown
Sounds like a bunch of whiny losers in here that don't like college football. Outside of NYC/LA (shitholes), there's no place I'd rather start or have a career in real estate than Atlanta (or Dallas, but what do I know). Enjoy your crappy city and 2 hours commute both ways when you move to Long Island because you didn't become a billionaire even though you were the smartest person you've ever met. I'll enjoy an incredible business friendly environment, nice folks, and a growing population base.
This reeks of a salty poster who is defensive over the fact that people don’t value his/her experience to the level that they hoped. Keep in mind this is wallstreet oasis, which has a heavy hand in the NE. Demographics are strong in the south to be sure but you don’t have to bash to others to prove your point. Generally speaking, people will value 3 years in NYC over Atlanta. Just look around at the big shops in your region, I can almost guarantee a lot of shops have leadership with experience in either NYC, Chicago, LA, or one of the major real estate/finance hubs nationally (Ex-Jamestown,Ares, Artemis, etc.). Why? Because generally that experience is highly valued, whether it’s purely psychological or not.
Some folks build the “rep” knowing it’s a short term loss financially for the long term gain of getting to leadership faster elsewhere.
Dudes from the SE get really butthurt when you make fun of Georgia/Carolinas/Tennessee etc. Tell a New Yorker or someone from Los Angeles that their city sucks and they don't care and go about their lives.
Tell that to a southern guy and they lose it. Hence the salty comments in this thread.
You're right, I don't like college football. I'm not going to mold my entire personality and interests to fit into the Atlanta SEC monoculture. I'm glad it works for you.
Also have you been to downtown Atlanta? Or anywhere outside of Buckhead? Its just as shitty as the places you point fingers at. Every city has good and bad parts, but there's a reason why everyone in Atlanta moves to the suburbs the second they have kids, where you will then have the exact same Long Island commute you're talking about.
Most people in our demographic don’t even hang out in buckhead, young professionals are in midtown, VA highlands, old fourth ward, beltline etc. Plenty of people not into college football here
Bro you didn’t give it a chance. Real Atlanta is on the east side heading towards Decatur. Grant Park, EAV, Inman park, Kirkwood, Reynoldstown, Cabbagetown, etc. Please don’t make the mistake to judge the A on Buckhead, Midtown, and downtown. Btw downtown will be like Brickell in Miami in 10 years as long as interest come down. The gulch development by CIM group is the catalyst to finally build out that area.
Threads like this are hilarious. How you feel about a city is so deeply personal. I’m from Atlanta and went to UGA. And you couldn’t pay me to go back to Atlanta - not even for $1mm per year. The gateway markets just have so much more of what I’m looking in my personal and professional life.
But that’s not to say Atlanta couldn’t be for you. Tons of people are moving there every year. It’s a good place to raise a family if you’re hitting that stage of your life (I loved growing up there). I went out in some of the trendier parts of town (Virginia highland, Edgewood, little 5, etc) and it feels a lot different than buckhead where all the RE firms are. The city is huge. You don’t have to hang out in buckhead and try to become friends with UGA grads.
Your from the south so you know this. They get really mad when people shit on Atlanta
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