I think my firm is taking advantage of me. What should I do?
Ok.. so to provide some background. I've been in the CRE industry for 4+ years. I started off my career in investment sales very briefly right before the pandemic hit, lateraled over to capital markets at a very large shop in a very large city (think CBRE, JLL, CW in NYC, Seattle, LA, Chicago, etc.), then decided to switch over to REPE / RE Dev. I used to intern at a very small shop in the Midwest (approx $400MM - $600MM AUM, geographically agnostic and active across many suburban and urban markets) and they gave me an offer to come back full time at the associate level many years later (keep in mind, I have personal relationships with the founders of this company and I turned down blue-chip/MF REPE shops and took a paycut to be apart of this firm at the ground floor).
During the first year, the role went very well, however, not many deals were closing (given the state of interest rates, makes sense). Being the only corporate employee of the firm besides the founders (with exception to property managers, back office staff and maintenance technicians), I started to find myself doing work that I personally felt was below my paygrade, but I completed the tasks nonetheless and wrote it off as the company being small and understaffed (e.g. back office work, taking leasing calls for some multifamily properties, etc.).
Now, shit has really hit the fan as my firm is requiring me to do maintenance work across our portfolio (e.g. painting, unit turnovers/cleaning, etc.). I'm starting to realize that the monotonous, laborious work is slowly taking over and I seem to do more of that than actually sourcing and evaluating new deals (what I was hired on for). Despite me doing all of this work that I have absolutely no experience in, the company has not given me a bonus or shown any appreciation to me for doing all of this labor work.
As I'm sure all of you know, right now is not the best time to be seeking other opportunities in CRE due to too much demand and not enough supply. I need advice and feel like I'm in a desperate position. If I have to paint one more wall and clean one more unit, I might seriously implode. I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but I consider myself a CRE professional, not a maintenance technician. Your advice is greatly appreciated.
I think the answer depends on how much the shit has hit the fan.
If it has really hit the fan and you're issuing capital calls, underwater on loan payments, rents are not what the are expected, then yeah I think what they are doing is fine. It won't be forever. This is what you sign up for when you work at these quasi start-up operators.
If you guys are still floating by (i.e. projected returns are fine, no capital calls, making loan payments) then yeah they are definitely are taking advantage of you.
Oh man does this bring back memories.
I got hired as an asset manager about 9-10 years ago. The company was headquartered in a different city than the one I was living in and they asked me to do them a favor. The property manager of the only building they had in my city had just quit, they were behind on leasing, and while the building was not a student housing building, it was directly across the street from a major university and was almost entirely rented by graduate students. If they weren't able to get it leased by August, they were essentially shit out of luck, and I had just come from a leasing position, albeit office leasing - not multifamily. I leased that building to 100% without any experience, got a $5,000 bonus, which at the time was serious money for me, and then asked when I would start transitioning to my asset management duties.
I thought I had proven myself the ultimate company man, willing to get my hands dirty and do work that was under my pay grade to prove how dedicated I was to success. Instead, they just decided that I was the perfect property manager for that asset. Annoyed, I networked and interviewed for a bit before ultimately applying to grad school and getting in around April or May. Thinking I was going to do right by these guys, and wanting to give them time to hire the right candidate, I let them know I'd be leaving at the end of summer, effectively giving them a 4 month notice. I was fired that week.
Long story short, you are being taken advantage of. There is a fine line between doing what needs to be done and being the company bitch, and unfortunately some people will take and take and take until they've taken all the dignity you once had. You are correct that it may not be the best time to be seeking other opportunities, but it also doesn't hurt to start looking. And oddly enough, you will look back on this situation and realize that you learned more property level info than you thought, as well as how to be a better manager yourself and not take advantage of people when you're the big dog in the company in the future.
So what to do you do in his situation? Sit down with his boss and say look happy to help where needed but I came on to focus on x and have been doing y. Is there anyone that can handle this going forward?
I feel like any way you try to push back ends up not in the best light, so what would you recommend especially in this market. Do you sit down and say I was hired with the understanding of working on x and it seems to have shifted, I want to focus on x can someone else cover what I'm doing now or do you just continue to accept it due to the economy and take it as you say.
Start looking for a new job.
You can take half measures, like recommend that your boss hire someone to take care of the other stuff, and maybe it works out, but it's going to be difficult to tell your bosses you're wasting your time with bullshit and come out looking good. Incredibly easy to look entitled and/or lazy at the end of that conversation even if neither are true.
Well said!
Hahaha, gotta be a troll!
I mean more than a half billion is assets under management and the company is struggling so much that paying a vendor to do maintenance is not possible? it doesn't sound like they're running things right. It can make sense for you to manage it to some degree such as hire the vendor for it but not doing the actual work. You should be looking for your next role because that's not your expertise or what you signed up for.
Right? This has to be a troll unless OPs bosses can't do basic math... I'm 100% positive you could hire labour to do this work that would be SUBSTANTIALLY less than what OP is getting paid. You'd either lay him off or find something, anything, more valuable for him to do which if they're a half billion AUM there should be plenty.
Trust me, I wish I was trolling. Keep in mind that I'm still doing my actual job (sourcing/eval deals, debt/equity raises, maintaining broker relationships) in addition to the maintenance work. So theoretically, they're getting a decent bang for their buck (admittedly at my expense and dignity).
this kind of stuff happens at smaller shops. Taking someone like OP and having them paint units would be the most extreme example I can imagine but I definitely believe it.
LMFAOO BRO
I mean... are you like... good at sourcing and evaluating deals? What have you brought to the table?
Maybe they are subscribers to the Japanese employment philosophy - they don't fire you but just stop giving you things to do (in this case "things" should be qualified as what you were hired to do).
I would say i've brought a lot to the table, have consistently received solid feedback from the MDs. I created the model template that the firm uses to evaluate every deal + much more.
Hahah that philosophy is great for someone based in the US - to sit around and do absolutely nothing while getting paid is the ideal office job for any corporate employee ain’t it? The alternative would be: sit around and actually have to do tedious, difficult or mind numbing work, for the same pay..
Man I hope this is a joke. If it isn't then boy I feel sorry. Shit I'd quit without even having a backup offer. If you're literally painting units as an associate this is screwed up. I wouldn't even have a conversation, I'd just quit. Hell I'd rather live with my parents and not have a job temporarily then work for these clowns.
It sucks but the focus has to be on getting the next gig right which is probably easier to do if he stays in this role.
Trust me, I wish I was joking, but unfortunately for me, I took a risk by joining this firm and it backfired completely. So, if you or anyone you know is looking for someone to come in at the associate level, please let me know
Quit. You’re wasting your time.
@CRE tells a great story. I’ll call mine my great recession era job, which was doing accounting (this pays the bills at home). But I also did leasing, including cobbling together a proper lease agreement. I was around 27 years old.
What it also included was doing some property management, which included:
I did make readies of resort units in Hawaii while in college (also did the accounting). Hanging up the draperies is a great shoulder workout. Building beds.
Later, when I had my own developments and construction projects, I’d jump up and down on the big dumpsters to get the trash down in 100+ degree heat. I was around 35 years old (I had a MBA and had a development project where I got paid zero for two years).
I’ve slept at airports and rental cars on trips to drum up business (including showering and brushing my teeth at 24 Hour Fitness, something I always thought about doing - and did).
What I’m saying is you do what you have to do to survive. I can look back at those times and I do not feel ashamed or felt like it was a waste of time. It led me somewhere.
There was plenty of times I was in pure finance mode, company building mode, and the money was coming in.
OP has persevered and is wondering how much is enough of this. Just giving a perspective that in this biz, you can work for the prestigious places and find yourself in an entirely different and less prestigious place within months. It’s all part of the journey. Rather enjoy these moments, you have plenty of time in your career to be a finance-only guru (especially if getting another job in this market is tough).
Are people taking advantage of you? Yes.
Great stories, thanks for sharing. Sounds like you did a lot of non traditional monkey spreadsheet work which is actually pretty cool. I like the days of being out of the office and doing something physically laborious.
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed reading!
This was a great story and I appreciate you sharing it. Definitely puts a lot of different things into perspective for me.
What advice do you need? It's a pretty clear cut case. If you're not doing the job you think you were hired to do, then quit. Or refuse to do it. Whatever. If you think you cannot get a job paying you more than you would get to do what you're doing now (painting walls) then don't quit.
Look at it from another perspective. Your employer is paying you a ton of money to do the job of a maintenance person. Do you think they're happy about that, either? They don't have work for you to do so they're getting what they can; if they had a deal for you to run, they'd have you do it. From that side of things, you either sit around doing literally nothing or you clean apartments. You don't consider yourself an do-nothing loafer either, do you?
Only you know what you are worth, though I'll point out there is no shame in manual or "unskilled" labor. If you aren't happy, quit; life is too short to be miserable all the time. Or at the very least tell your boss you won't be painting apartments anymore. I will say, though, that sometimes this is a part of life. I've spent a lot of time hauling supplies up and down stairs so the work crews can do HQS repairs more efficiently on a tight deadline, sometimes that is what it means to get a job done.
OP, I think this is the most positive way to look your situation. There are plenty of people who don't have jobs now, and while you CAN look at it like they are screwing you, this is the best way to be thankful.
That definitely sucks and I'm sorry to hear that. I think you have to have an honest conversation with your manager/founder and see where they're at, because what you're doing is not normal. My guess is that they don't have enough work for you to do and are likely struggling so they're trying to put you in some other areas instead of letting you go.
If you need money and can't afford to be jobless, I would stay at where you are for now while applying to as many other places as possible. The RE market is slow and by the time you "ride things out" you're going to be 30.
I know a guy. message me
You're anonymous, so can't PM you. Feel free to message me on here because I am definitely trying to get a different opportunity.
I think it depends on how much you trust the partners and if you believe in the firm's growth trajectory. At my previous firm, the partners had an adage "No job too small" that they would always say and there was one guy, let's call him Bob, that exemplified this adage. Bob started at the company at its infancy. He was the first employee besides the partners and he, along with the partners, had to do everything, including all the administrative mind numbing work. Their very first office was in some rundown building in the basement and one day during heavy rain, the basement started to flood. He understood that the partners couldn't deal with this as they had more important work to do, so he went out and came back with a bunch of towels and a shop vac and literally got on his hands and knees to stem the flooding. He was promoted to director within 3 years or joining and recently made partner. The firm is now the largest developer in my state. The partners were honest guys and recognized his commitment.
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Great story and seems like a good firm. However, for every one of these firms are other firms that treat you like garbage and pretend that you'll be partner. I got a buddy, lets call him Steve. Super sharp and willing to get his hands dirty. He came over to startup fund focused on value-add multi and retail. He came over from a $5B fund because he wanted to get upside and grow himself. His new fund partners promised him future carry and a path to being a partner. When asked to do something he did it. He was not only underwriting, but also doing all asset management. He was the leasing agent and part time maintenance guy as well. The firm grew from $75m when he was brought on to $500M. A lot of that thanks to him as he put together the pitchdecks as well. In addition his leasing prowess and the grind on the retail side, allowed them to fully lease up two low occupancy centers. They used this track record to get an equity commitment of $100M from a LP. Once the firm hit $500M AUM, they actually brought on a senior level person over Steve that Steve would now report to. Steve immediately went to the partners and said what gives. He told them he was promised carry and a path to partnership. He stated how he was instrumental in this growth. The partners responded they appreciated his help, but need him where he's at because he's really good at his current job. So they gave him a 15% pay increase, no title change, no carry. Steve worked another 18 months hoping to make inroads, but his new boss, who actually had no clue what he was doing wasn't helpful. Steve then decided to leave and gave a one month notice to the partners. He wanted to make sure he finished up one lease up project for them. He even offered to train a new replacement. The partners were furious they said "we given you so much opportunity and this is how you treat us". He was let go the same day. He's doing well now and in a much better spot but he wasted 4.5 years of his life there.
My point is that RE startup firms prey on younger kids because RE is always seen as a pathway to wealth/passive income, etc. Everyone wants to be a partner/owner in a fund or develop properties themselves. These startup shops always market that there is unlimited upside potential and blah blah blah. This is why pay for our industry is very depressed. In comparison, other fields like IB, PE, etc. see much better pay.
In your case Bob had good people. But you and I both know theres plenty of sleezeballs in this industry. Plenty of people that will prey on others. OP should not assume his company is one or the other, but he certainly should not be naive in thinking they will be like Bob's firm.
Completely agree and not advising OP one way or another. I think it does ultimately come down to his relationship with the partners if he chooses to stay.
This is very relevant to my current situation. The founders at my firm have also promised me significant upside, path to partnership and carry, however, have not delivered on a single promise. I am in the exact same situation as Steve is.
Thank you all for the help and advice. Seriously really appreciate it. The conclusion I've drawn is essentially that this firm is 100% taking advantage of me and I need to get out of here ASAP. So, if any of your guys' firms are hiring for AM/Acq./Brokerage, please let me know because I am fighting for my life here lol.
I'll tell you this, yes your job sucks and your life might seem terrible but about 30% of the people I know in the industry have been let go in the last 18 months. Some have found jobs, but others are still looking. Some of these people have kids/mortgages, etc. So yes what youre doing is not fun, but you have a paycheck coming in.
What markets are you open to?
Honestly, open to any major markets.
Every now and then a thread comes along and all the old heads come out of the woodwork to share sage advice. This is one of those threads. Some really great stories here. OP, acquisitions market is tough right now, hang in there. Or maybe look for AM jobs.
I think this thread is also a great lesson for those considering where to work. The “ship” you attach yourself to is almost more important than the quality of the work you do. If you’re going to work at a smaller firm over an established fund, you really have to vet it.
How do you best vet a group or know it’ll have potential?
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