Shame on you, BofA. But also, the industry needs to change.
Unfortunately, this has happened before and the industry continues to forget about this and revert back to its old and outdated ways that go "if I suffered, you shall too." It doesn't matter how much innovation we have, seniors are going to burn juniors to make sure they are covered in front of clients. If you attend the client meetings, you will know 80% of the pages get glossed over and no client is going to catch minor errors. However, it's not just the senior on the deal team's fault, it's the managers as well. You see exactly how many hours someone is working, and if it's anywhere near 100, someone needs to step in. Working 100 hours is not normal and it's completely exhausting to both your physical and mental health.
Your firm doesn't care either. When is the last time you were emailed about your mental health benefits? When has someone stepped in after you logged a 100 hour week? Are you actually able to use your PTO?
The entire industry needs to change, and we shouldn't stand by passively and watch this happen.
Based on the WSO threads and discussions, your concerns echo a widespread sentiment among investment banking professionals about the grueling work hours and the impact on mental health. The industry's culture of long hours and high stress is notorious, and many analysts and associates report feeling overwhelmed and unsupported. Here are some key points from the discussions on Wall Street Oasis:
Industry Culture: The "if I suffered, you should too" mentality is deeply ingrained in many firms. This outdated mindset perpetuates a cycle of stress and burnout among junior employees.
Senior Management's Role: There's a significant disconnect between the work that juniors are tasked with and the actual utility of that work in client meetings. Despite this, the pressure to deliver flawless work continues, often leading to unnecessary stress.
Lack of Intervention: Many employees have noted that despite visible signs of excessive working hours, there is often no intervention from higher-ups. The culture of silence around mental health issues and the lack of proactive support from management are major concerns.
Utilization of Benefits: Questions about the real accessibility of mental health benefits and PTO are common. Employees often feel that taking advantage of these benefits might negatively impact their standing or progression within the firm.
Need for Change: There is a strong call within the community for systemic change in the industry. This includes better management practices, genuine support for mental health, and a shift away from glorifying overwork.
The discussions suggest that while some firms are beginning to acknowledge these issues, much more needs to be done to create a sustainable and healthy working environment in investment banking.
Sources: PE Associate Jumps to Death / Discussion on Mental Health, Leaving IB Soon, Final Rants, WSO 2022 Investment Banking Work-Conditions Survey (Part 2/3), MENTAL HEALTH | IBD ANALYST EDITION, Mentally shit, can I take a break?
If you are a manager who is unable to protect your juniors from excessive work/unreasonable hours then you don't deserve to be employed at a reputable bank
Yeh you must be a pretty shit banker and have poor client relations if you need to torture juniors to get deal flow
To provide some perspective, play devil's advocate here.
You can't expect to work a 9-5/6 and get paid the stupid money you earn relative to most 20 year olds (and more than most 30 something year odds as well).
Yes, 100 hour weeks aren't sustainable long term and need to be addressed. Yes the BAML thing is a tragedy that should not have happened. There does need to be accountability.
But there will be periods on deals where you have a fortnight of hell to get it over the line. This means 80-100 weeks. That's investment banking. Its the staffers job, alongside Seniors to ensure there aren't juniors doing this back to back without downtime. It's also their responsibility to keep track of people's wellness. I don't think a corporate heads pace account or other "mental health benefits" cut it.
No idea on this particular BAML team. However, just realise that In most cases at most banks, its not Seniors being malicious and creating work for the sake of it. Agreed a few are inept or simply do not care. I can understand how "useless work" causes frustration. But those dishing this out on tbe regular are usually the poor MDs who don't have the content and rely on heavy materials to support them.
Hours are tough right now because we are all doing more with less. Gone are the days of 2019 and 2021 where banks are chunky and have loads of juniors. Things will get better as the market picks up and banks are forced to hire.
There's a continual balance of trying to keep comp up and not running things on a shoe string to achieve that with the lower deal flow.
I can only speak for myself and say I try to protect my juniors on projects. I don't infringe on birthdays, holidays etc. I don't say this to "brag" but to try to show you that not all Seniors see junior bankers as a use and abuse resource.
Edit: Edited to provide some clarity. I understand the anger in the responses so far, especially given the situation and the general current of hatred for Seniors on this forum. Intention wasn't to "shill", protect mgmt or rile anyone up.
Bud do you really think this is the right moment to be shilling for management
Holy cow you are a tool son. Every single sentence you wrote is either incorrect or pathetic.
As someone who is not in banking, what was the rush in this situation? Sure sometimes you might have upcoming amortisation or covenant test that will be breached but here a bank agreed to buy another one. What would have happened if it took one week longer to cross the Ts and dot the Is? Is it just matter of 1 extra week of consolidated results PF for the year?
It's partly the clients asking for materials, but also the MDs not pushing back and forcing the juniors to churn out those materials so they don't look bad or slow. Things are different on live deals, but as a manager or MD, you do have the ability to push back if something is unreasonable, and for the most part, clients are receptive.
Bro, working 100 hours to align logos on your shitty sellside deck that changes nothing is ridiculous.
I think you missed the entire point of the post, and also no one asked you to play devil's advocate. I could respond to the points in the above post, but it's a waste of time as you have clearly been brain-washed by this industry. The bottom line is that things need to change, and I hope the associate's death wasn't in vain.
As a purported senior, you would think you’d know how to read the room, but clearly not. Your entire comment is indicative of the tone deaf, shit responses I expect to receive and hear senior bankers across the street give to their groups this coming week. A bunch of empty af words to “assuage” juniors - “we are not BoA, we won’t let that happen here, you can speak up here…”
Meanwhile, this coming Friday, some junior is gonna get staffed in some bullshit pitch for Monday that could not be pushed all because the “client asked” for it… dude gtfoh.
Moreover, your second sentence is the main thing that’s wrong with this industry… why does everything have to be about money and comp, you think the associate’s family cares right now that he was making $200k+… Like obviously you can’t work a 9-5/6 and make IB money but that is so FAR FROM THE TOPIC AT HAND…
so glad that you're able to humble brag about your ability to lead during this time and somewhat protect your team??? go write an anon post and jerk off somewhere else
clearly, the calls for reform are not complaining about the standard 80-hour work week, people who enter this industry know what they are getting into and want to put in the work. however, it is absolutely reasonable to not want to be worked to death and the lack of sympathy or care for the guy from his superiors was appalling and his death absolutely could have been avoided
this is why the senior bankers on this deal who pushed this ASO to work 120 weeks for a month need to not just be canned, but sued out of their eyeballs. Without accountability psycho senior bankers won't change
Totally agreed. Craziest thing is if these senior bankers get canned and it is PROVEN that they were directly responsible for this poor man’s death, some other bank(s) will be vying to scoop them up once the dust settles and people move on to the next thing. Ridiculous
Clearly one of the founders of a small shop who wrote this.
Ask around about previous deaths at smaller firms and how firms have covered it up.
Not just firms but shitty HR teams who need to be reported for unethical and illegal practices including massive bias.
Ah yes, another devils advocate guy. Knew many like you. Good luck
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