Pymetrics... What the fuck??
Does anyone have any clue as to the underlying goals behind these tests and whether they can have an impact on our application?
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Career Resources
They highly influence your application success
But like why? These games are extremely trivial. Can you be prevented from getting a hirevue if you don't do well?
Yeah man I agree it’s stupid but apparently it’s an important part of their new interview process
For JPM? Source?
I'm not OP but I've networked with ~10 JPM bankers and they all say that it matters. Their exact words to me have been "it's a black box, we don't know how it works. Our recommendations don't mean anything anymore. Apparently it's all up to Pymetrics, and whoever scores in the top 25% of test takers will get a superday"
Heard from a JPM VP alumni last week that if you score above a 265.0, your app is tabbed for a next round
265.0 what? There's no numerics I can see
Exactly, it's not for you to see. It is for HR to implement and oversee so they can pretend that they too add value.
Hm what were everyone's most unique? Mine were risk tolerance, decision making, and attention.
I got effort, focus, and learning for my top three.
Risk Tolerance
Focus
Attention
I got unique in Decision Making, Focus, and Emotion (not sure what this one means lol)
risk tolerance, learning and altruism
Altruism? Did you give the other user $0? Lol
I got autism, greed, and back office! My score was incredibly high in these areas. Do you think I have a shot?
I spazzed on the spacebar for that shit.
Ok made it to the hirevue. Can you network at JPM past this stage?
The hirevue is automatic once you get the pymetrics. The real question is how each of these will affect suoerday consideration.
S/o JPM for making my parents think I'm crazy for noisily spamming my spacebar and arrow keys
i feel this lmao
HAHAHA I feel you man!
I think it’s that they take your score and compare it to people who already work at JPM - so with the retarded balloon thing, you are supposed to have a risk tolerance that is comparable to people who work at JPM. Can anyone confirm/refute?
So having a unique skill is bad ?
Can confirm. Took one for BCG, they want you to answer similarly to the people who already work there, it is a "predictor of success". But honestly, it seems like bullshit.
Another reason I was given as to why they do it is because they wanted to remove any hiring bias that is based around what school you went to/race/gender/etc. I had read somewhere on this site that JPM specifically was seeking to eliminate the idea/process of networking altogether and that they were seeking to begin solely relying on these digital evaluators to screen applicants and nearly fully automating the initial screening process.
I fucking hate Human Resources - waste of oxygen the lot of them.
Like out of all the things you could come up with, they pick popping balloons and spamming the space bar as a measure of potential success...
Honestly, the reliance on pymetrics is an absolute dream for me. I'm not doing my MBA at a prestigious school and I don't come from a family/background that gives me a particularly rich network in this area. I'm obviously not going to be happy if I get rejected, but at least I'll know it's because I suck and not because my school lacks cachet and I don't know the right people.
Such a dumb and inaccurate strategy. I highly doubt that JPM bankers took it that seriously if they had to take it lol. If I worked there I'd deliberately fuck up my attempt to fuck with HR.
Ah. The balloon thing...
We should code a shitty copy of the pymetrics games and ask WSO members who work at JPM/Blackstone to complete the tests, so we get data from which we can extrapolate what behavior is expected from applicants.
Yes but the movement of the arrows/popping of balloons may not be purely random, and it’s not that easy to figure out especially if the movements are conditional to the users response.
Tbh I actually like pymetrics because it is a predictor of success and it has provided me with a lot of information about the career paths that are in-line with my traits and strengths and sike bitch pymetrics is wack asl
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I'm at a BB that planned on using it cuz JPM or Credit Suisse decide to use it. As indicated above they ask some people to take the exam first, so it could be a good indication that future applicants that generate similar result will be a good fit for the team. It's total B/S, because everyone's result was so different from each other. In the end, some MD just told HR or whoever responsible for the project that it was total B/S, I guess the HR or whoever got enough shit from senior bankers, they just stop the project.
You're posting as anon, why can't you just say what bank it is?
wait. CS has plyometrics? didn’t know that. did u guys all get invited to pymetrics after applying for CS?
So when it comes to skin color and gender they want diversity. When it comes to how people actually think, they want conformity.
I remember I did a pymetrics for JPM last year, and it legit glitched so hard on like 3 games, couldn't even finish them. just clicked around til it finally just ended.... tried calling to re-do it, and they wouldnt let me for like 365 days... just kissed that jpm app goodbye.. so stupid
I submitted 8 fake JPM applications so I could practice/warmup on the pymetric tests. Hoping it will make up for my lack of networking (extreme non-target)
... 8? Amateur
Did you actually? Lmao
Going to blow when one of your 8 fake apps get invited for a superday but your real one is rejected lol
would be funny if the HR does that intentionally to make u get pissed lmaoo
Genius. Would have never thought of that
"You may be best suited for work environments in which it is better to focus on one task at a time."
Okay... looks like I won't be working at JPM...
I got that on my pymetrics and still got an IB offer from JPM haha I truly have no idea what they're looking for.
Did that last year, got to SuperDay. I don’t know how they decided who got past that round.
Bunch of bs how could they even decide a top 25% when everyone has different "randomly" generated pymetrics tests it wouldn't be an even playing field
It's not randomly generated. I've taken pymetrics a few times now and it's always the same
As a non target that did the pymetrics test last cycle and got superdays from legit every single role at JPM that I applied to...I love it lmao
Pymetrics didn't matter in the process last year, it was just in a data collection phase (confirmed with an HR director) so that was all you my friend.
Thanks for making my day!
how many apps u submitted?
did some pymetrics for bx - i didn't understand 2 of the games (the ring one for example). I got shit feedback and realised that i can't do shit for 365 days... bye bye jpm, bx and any other simp bank that uses it
just use a different email address lmao
I’m in the same boat... took it last year to fuck around and see what it was about. Didn’t realize I wouldn’t be able to take it again. This pymetric thing is beyond stupid lol
I found this University Careers blog post that tells you about Game-Based assessments. I'm pretty sure that they test for loads of different things to be honest. https://manunicareersblog.com/2020/06/17/game-based-assessments-all-you…
how long after we finish pymetrics should we hear back??
Bump
When I recruited into London, pymetrics was already being used to filter out applicants. If this is any help, I got assessment centers at all the places I had to do pymetrics for and my most "Unique" traits were: focus, risk tolerance, and attention. Obviously, I have no insight into whether or not this was helpful at all, since HR will never fess up to rejecting someone on the basis of the pymetrics test.
:0 Those were mine too, but I feel like they aren't really that unique.
unique just means that you scored above the average for the general population. look at the grading criteria on the website
The goal is to find applicants that match the performance of top performance within firms.
Imagine if some football club picked their top 5 players, and then made them take a bunch of different tests, measuring their reaction time, agility, and what not.
Now every time they get young hopeful players that want to try - before they even get a chance to show what they can on the field, they make them take the exact same tests - and compare their results against the top players.
If there's a very positive correlation, you're good to go. If not, you're declined.
That's the gist of how those tests work.
And it's not nearly as predictive as even that analogy would suggest. With athletes, you can measure a lot of performance attributes on a bad --> good scale. Speed, strength, etc. such as at a combine. Pymetrics outputs stuff on an incomprehensible scale.
That's by design, by the way. From Hyatt's website, direct from Pymetrics ("confidential"): "The aggregate view (e.g. fit score & recruiter report) is what is significant, not understanding individual/specific traits."
In other words, don't question how the sausage is made, just hire who has the top scores.
https://about.hyatt.com/content/dam/HyattStories/risehy/HowTo-Interpret…
So basically they're trying to make their own NFL combine. Which is fine, if they give it very little weight like the NFL teams do. Or they can be like Al Davis and think the combine is everything and lose 70-80% of games every season.
Meh this industry is weird asf, they want diversity but still recruit according to fit or according to how well you can emulate current JPM workers. I might not have a PhD in psychology, but this recipe doesn't look like it's gonna make them bake a good diversity cake...
best comment here hahahahaha. was thinking the same thing
Said the same thing earlier before seeing your comment. Glad to know I wasn't alone in seeing that irony. "Don't think different, just look different".
.
The entire concept of pymetrics depresses me. It is phrenology for recruiters trying to assess people on who they are instead of what they've done. The latter is much, much more predictive of future success. Don't tell me who you are, show me who you are through your actions!
Direct from Pymetrics: "This model is used to identify who has the cognitive & emotional profile to be successful in the role (this is not measured on skills or experience)." Source
Do you know why we care about stuff like your SAT scores, GPA, and internship performance? It's not because these things are "biased." It's because real life work is much more similar to the SAT than a pymetrics test. The SAT is something you can prepare for, and in fact you should prepare rigorously for (studying a lot in advance, covers several different subjects which have a basis in the real world).
The pymetrics test is designed completely counter to this approach. In real life, you will have tough problems ahead, and time to prepare for them. Similar with school performance. GPA basically tells me if you did your homework and studied for tests. Guess what? It doesn't even matter what the tests were about, it matters that you consistently can work to do your homework. That's predictive of job success. Doing a careful resume and not making errors? That's predictive of job success, that is literally part of my job to make error-free documents.
I honestly think a lot of these AI startups are buzzword solutions (AI! ML!) in search of buzzword problems (diversity!). In reality, these AI problems probably discriminate much more than they let on. If you want to hire more black people or women at a company, reach out to more black people and women, and hire them. If you want to hire people who think differently, be brave and do that. Bring in outside hires. Have one team hire people who will work in another team. I don't know everything, but people are the answer and not the problem.
I feel as though in the future we're growing to adapt to situations so fast, past predictors such as GPA and SAT scores aren't as good at predicting future success. When weighing risk for instance- one could argue that the most risk adverse path is do study hard, attend the target, crush your exams and be that cookie cutter kid plucked to be in Goldman TMT. These types followed the playbook...what happens when there isn't one?
Is this going to be the finance equivalent of the draft combine?
It's much worse than the combine, which itself is not predictive of athletic success.
Here are some examples of pymetrics games used at BCG. See if you could even guess which side of the spectrum employers would even want?
I weep for today's generation who sits in front of a god damn computer to get assessed on their emotional intelligence and corporations don't even have the heart to put a human being in front of their resume for even 30 seconds.
Oh uhhh... you also get to see how you perform on the draft combine and it's not a black box. You also have real life recruiters who show up to high schools and colleges to physically watch players and talk to them. Finally you have statistics from actually playing the game of football at different levels, including college. Would anybody seriously recommend replacing college football stats (actual proven results on the field) with some kind of personality or physical test?
i took it for BCG and got to final round interviews, this is coming from someone who failed the series 63 twice.. if that says anything about my testing aptitude
Good comment here and above. I share your concern about this whole thing being a canary in the coal mine. Kind of amazing that experienced people (whoever backs these tests) are actually dumb enough to not see the folly here. Feels like the twilight zone.
1, 2, and 4 were on JPM too.
Because we all know all of the greatest players of all time totally crushed it in the combine right?
It is fully data driven think of the movie Moneyball. Interviewing for trading firms make you do it on top of a mental math test.
That's the pymetrics pitch, but the reality is exactly the opposite.
"Moneyball" works because it uses statistics that are relevant for on-the-job performance: hits, on base percentage, etc. Things that the players have done that will predict future success. The previous way of baseball recruiting was to judge someone's looks and character, or something, the intangibles. That's bias, and bad bias.
Let's look at pymetrics vs. an HR person looking at a resume. It is the resume which contains the industry relevant statistics (work experience, standardized tests, GPA, competition awards, etc.). It is pymetrics which attempts to force the intangibles about a person into data points and introduces ridiculous confusion into the hiring process.
I think the situation in Moneyball worked especially well because baseball offers a lot of data on actual job performance.
The attempts to apply that same concept to front-office white collar work seem incredibly gimmicky to me. What’s the analyst equivalent of OPS and VORP? Certainly not personality scores.
I think that these tests are complete rubbish. Whats even the point of putting in effort (and money) to be accepted to a target school when it, in the end, will pin down to an internet based test?
did pretty well on this - pretty much did what the instructions said without much mistake - but in my report, it says a lot about qualities that don't fit into IB lmao
Has anyone received pymetrics for FT?
Also wondering this - nothing here yet
Make your sentiments known to HR - especially for companies you would not join anyway. Tell them you won't be applying to any role which requires taking this pop-psychology sham.
They test for impulsiveness, attention span and ability to learn.
What's the best app webpage to practice on?
As an incoming JPM intern for this summer, I would say don't stress too much about it. Was told when networking that it was something they look at but your results will not make or break your candidacy necessarily. I believe they are testing out Pymetrics on potential interns to see if it's a tool they can use more broadly. I definitely didn't do my Pymetrics perfectly and I moved on.
what did you get on your pymetrics?
It doesn't give you a score like a test or something. The results break down each trait that was measured in the games what your results corresponded to. As for what particular results they are looking for, I don't know. But also, this was last year. It may be different now.
Every system can be beaten, I can't find it on my laptop but try to find the research paper on pymetrics, it will tell you what each test is measuring and thus will guide how you should do each mini game to max out results
Do you remember the title of the paper you are referring to?
anyone heard back from JPMC? - after doing a hirevue
did MS pymetrics a few days ago. Says that my numerical reasoning is "blocked"? What does this mean? The other two say "completed and sent".
BCG and BlackRock use this, makes no sense to me
hi! are we able to sign in and use a different email the next time we apply to a firm if we want to attempt the games again?
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