People Ignoring Your E-mails
About how many % of your e-mails (asking about opportunities/internships/etc) get ignored? I've been networking a lot lately, and while I have gotten many responses, some just plainly ignored it.
Now some of you may say "oh you know they are just busy." But I personally think that's just a really weak excuse. Typing a "yes" or "no" and hitting "send" takes about 5 seconds. There's no one on the planet who can be that busy.
Come think of it, maybe they think I'm dirt and not worthy of their time...Oh well
Mod (Andy) note: Great response below by Flake & LTV, "A few thoughts from someone on the other side:"







In my experience I have found
In my experience I have found that the majority of the emails I send out are ignored.
^Thanks for the
^Thanks for the response.
Some of the people who ignore the e-mails are alumni too. Even worse, you know how under each internship posting there's a contact info? Sometimes the person in the contact info ignores your e-mail too.
Now if you're Steve Jobs (sjobs@apple.com, a publicly known email)) and you get maybe 50 emails every minute, I can understand. But clearly this isn't the case.
Some people are busy and
Some people are busy and don't want to be helpful..I've been rejected by alumni non-alumni as well...Its on to the next one..
I generally try to get back
I generally try to get back to people, but some people aren't responsive unless they think it will result in something. Others might just mean to answer later but forget. You have to learn not to take this kind of thing personally as you don't know their circumstances. For all you know they might have lost half their team to layoffs and the last thing he wants to do is discuss this with someone looking to break into the industry... It's good to get into the habit of being responsive or getting back to people eventually (remember this when you're on the other side).
If you're getting responses using one strategy focus on it. If a certain strategy is not working at all, try to make changes to your approach.
You have to think that these
You have to think that these people have a lot more important things to do then email you. Plain and simple I bet they see it, think about emailing you back in a bit, then simply forget because they are pre-occupied.
Be persistent, I just
Be persistent, I just finished talking with an alumni from my school at a BB--had to follow up 8 times in order to get him on the phone.
Relinquis wrote: . Others
. Others might just mean to answer later but forget..
.
This has happened to me, when I would call the person up after finding their number..
My turnover rate for email
My turnover rate for email response with alums is around 50%. I also follow up by phone, bringing my total to around 70%. A third I get on the phone offer to push my resume internally, and I generally have the opportunity to ask another third of those I reach.
But that said, my first email form-letter (the one my school suggested I use) was awful. I drafted a more concise one with a quick intro, asking for a "brief" conversation. If anyone wants some tips on alumni networking, hit me up. It's been very key, at least for me.
"There are three ways to make a living in this business: be first, be smarter, or cheat."
Two words: phone call. It's
Two words: phone call.
It's so easy to ignore an email and say, "I'll get to it later."
It's hard for them to ignore you if you're calling them. Don't hide behind text on a screen.
Most of my emails are never returned, although I usually find that if I email back once a week with, "I'd like to follow up on this," then I get a response after maybe the 3rd week.
"I can't wait to start working so I can auto-ding anyone who puts an objective/profile/qualifications section on their resume."
how do u guys find the phone
how do u guys find the phone numbers?
I applied thru their online application system or there is a generic email address to HR. I have no idea where the phone numbers are.
Go to their corporate
Go to their corporate website. Sometimes there are direct emails to MDs on the website. Otherwise, call the main phone number. If HR picks up, ask to be transferred and ask for the individual's extension while you're at it. I actually like to call after-hours so I'm directed to the automated company directory. From there, I can look up anyone I want by name and write down their extension. The next day, I call them directly.
"I can't wait to start working so I can auto-ding anyone who puts an objective/profile/qualifications section on their resume."
you shouldn't feel like
you shouldn't feel like you're entitled to shit when you're cold emailing
Most of your e-mails will be
Most of your e-mails will be read. If you are good at it, and have a good story, you should get 70-80% response rate after 3 e-mail blasts. By response I mean they agree to help you, or tell you they won't help you for some reason.
chicandtoughness wrote: Go to
Go to their corporate website. Sometimes there are direct emails to MDs on the website. Otherwise, call the main phone number. If HR picks up, ask to be transferred and ask for the individual's extension while you're at it. I actually like to call after-hours so I'm directed to the automated company directory. From there, I can look up anyone I want by name and write down their extension. The next day, I call them directly.
how do u know u want to transfer ur call to who?
A few thoughts from someone
A few thoughts from someone on the other side:
1. During peak recruiting session, I get a lot more emails from prospective monkeys than during off-season. As a consequence, my response rate is lower during peak months. Usually, I just thin-slice an email when it comes in, but will respond after the day or week is over. When you have more of such emails, it's easy to lose track of who to respond to.
Takeaway: Start networking early when there're fewer competing monkeys vying for my time. This gives you the added benefit of getting to know me longer.
2. In general, I'm likelier to respond to students from my alma-mater. However, I almost always respond to someone with a similar story to mine (even if he/she didn't goto my school). I come from an unconventional background (for someone in finance), and when a student with a similar story emails me, I usually mark that email for follow-up and act on it. That said, there's a fine line between due-diligence and stalking.
Takeaway: Your due-diligence on the professional should be more than just finding their email address. If you mention something you have in common (beyond just school), the person will be likelier to get back to you. Btw, linkedin is great for this.
3. This point is more general, but I think it needs to be said: be clear, concise, and to the point. It makes a great impression. The kids I usually offer to circulate resumes for are the ones who're the most articulate. They have a 1minute pitch nailed, and are courteous and a pleasure to talk to.
LTV wrote: A few thoughts
A few thoughts from someone on the other side:
1. During peak recruiting session, I get a lot more emails from prospective monkeys than during off-season. As a consequence, my response rate is much lower during peak months. Usually, I just thin-slice an email when it comes in, but will respond after the day or week is over. When you have more of such emails, it's easier to lose track of who to respond to.
Takeaway: Start networking early when there's fewer competing monkeys vying for my time. This gives you the added benefit of getting to know me longer.
2. In general, I'm likelier to respond to students from my alma-mater. However, I almost always respond to someone with a similar story to mine (even if he/she didn't goto my school). I come from an unconventional background (for someone in finance), and when a student with a similar story emails me, I usually mark that email for follow-up and act on it. That said, there's a fine line between due-diligence and stalking.
Takeaway: Your due-diligence on the professional should be more than just finding their email address. If you mention something you have in common (beyond just school), the person will be much more likely to get back to you. Btw, linkedin is great for this.
3. This point is more general, but I think it needs to be said: be clear, concise, and to the point. It makes a great impression. The kids I usually offer to circulate resumes for are the ones who're the most articulate. They have a 1minute pitch nailed, and are courteous and a pleasure to talk to.
This is great.
Personally I just forget to respond to these kids sometimes and then I finally remember 3 weeks later. I also get annoyed when someone asks me for advice and I spend a few minutes writing up an email but never receive a quick "Thanks." in return. Not sure if anyone else would get pissed off by that, but I do...so make sure you get back to the alumni.
Recently people started emailing me at work instead of my personal email. This makes me respond to students because I'm already in the fucking zone at work and it's not as easy to just throw that email to the side. I am the opposite of LTV though, I'm more willing to help someone random, someone who found me on LinkedIn rather than a kid from the school I went to. I hate my school, that includes 98% of the kids who go there.
Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
Saying thanks after receiving
Saying thanks after receiving advice will increase your chances of being remembered.
Flake wrote: LTV wrote: A
A few thoughts from someone on the other side:
1. During peak recruiting session, I get a lot more emails from prospective monkeys than during off-season. As a consequence, my response rate is much lower during peak months. Usually, I just thin-slice an email when it comes in, but will respond after the day or week is over. When you have more of such emails, it's easier to lose track of who to respond to.
Takeaway: Start networking early when there's fewer competing monkeys vying for my time. This gives you the added benefit of getting to know me longer.
2. In general, I'm likelier to respond to students from my alma-mater. However, I almost always respond to someone with a similar story to mine (even if he/she didn't goto my school). I come from an unconventional background (for someone in finance), and when a student with a similar story emails me, I usually mark that email for follow-up and act on it. That said, there's a fine line between due-diligence and stalking.
Takeaway: Your due-diligence on the professional should be more than just finding their email address. If you mention something you have in common (beyond just school), the person will be much more likely to get back to you. Btw, linkedin is great for this.
3. This point is more general, but I think it needs to be said: be clear, concise, and to the point. It makes a great impression. The kids I usually offer to circulate resumes for are the ones who're the most articulate. They have a 1minute pitch nailed, and are courteous and a pleasure to talk to.
This is great.
Personally I just forget to respond to these kids sometimes and then I finally remember 3 weeks later. I also get annoyed when someone asks me for advice and I spend a few minutes writing up an email but never receive a quick "Thanks." in return. Not sure if anyone else would get pissed off by that, but I do...so make sure you get back to the alumni.
Recently people started emailing me at work instead of my personal email. This makes me respond to students because I'm already in the fucking zone at work and it's not as easy to just throw that email to the side. I am the opposite of LTV though, I'm more willing to help someone random, someone who found me on LinkedIn rather than a kid from the school I went to. I hate my school, that includes 98% of the kids who go there.
any advice on how to first get the ball rolling if say I were to email you or send you a linkedin message?
I have seen people start with generally asking for 'advice' but I thought maybe it is best to get straight to the point? Yes, I care about your advice, but most importantly I want to get a job at your company and this is my application resume to you for you to consider an interview for me or forward to someone who could.
I mean that is the hard truth right? But will that be too direct?
Why should someone sending me
Why should someone sending me a generic email deserve any of my attention or time (even if it is only a few seconds)?
You have to remember that we get nothing from helping you. Make sure your email isn't obviously mass produced and say something unique. Those are the only emails I respond to. Go the extra mile and find out something about the person you are emailing.
Someone mentioned this above, lots of layoffs and shitty bonuses going around right now. Don't expect a very high response rate no matter what you write. My response rate is rate is probably about 20%.
Personally, I prefer receiving emails to calls, but can see why others think calls are better.
Emo_Rhino wrote: any advice
any advice on how to first get the ball rolling if say I were to email you or send you a linkedin message?
I have seen people start with generally asking for 'advice' but I thought maybe it is best to get straight to the point? Yes, I care about your advice, but most importantly I want to get a job at your company and this is my application resume to you for you to consider an interview for me or forward to someone who could.
I mean that is the hard truth right? But will that be too direct?
I (and most other professionals) are well aware of the real reason behind an "ask for advise" call/email. You should realize that every-time I offer to forward your resume to my boss, I'm putting my credibility at stake. I'm not going to do that unless I'm convinced you won't embarrass me. The "ask for advise" call is really a bullshit screener from my end (and boy, has it been useful).
Your best bet is to come across as a smart guy on that call by asking few smart, crisp questions. Towards the end of the call, you should have a sense of how impressed the guy on the other end is. On a scale of 1-10, if it's >7, just be straightup honest and ask if he'd be comfortable recommending you for an interview. If you think it went ok, but not great, ask if he'd critique your resume ... it's a great pretense to get your resume in front of someone.
On a side note I think it's
On a side note I think it's kind of weird that you mention Steve Job's e-mail adress. Could've picked someone else's...
Flake wrote: I am the
I am the opposite of LTV though, I'm more willing to help someone random, someone who found me on LinkedIn rather than a kid from the school I went to. I hate my school, that includes 98% of the kids who go there.
Have I ever told you that I love you, flake?
Steve Mallory wrote: Why
Why should someone sending me a generic email deserve any of my attention or time (even if it is only a few seconds)?
Thanks for the response.
Actually, none of my e-mails are generic. I personalize each one, especially the ones I send to alumni. I do a bit of research on his/her major, the company they work at...etc etc etc before I write the e-mail.
bumpthethread wrote: Steve
Why should someone sending me a generic email deserve any of my attention or time (even if it is only a few seconds)?
Thanks for the response.
Actually, none of my e-mails are generic. I personalize each one, especially the ones I send to alumni. I do a bit of research on his/her major, the company they work at...etc etc etc before I write the e-mail.
That will help alot. If you can find a common interest (my Linkedin offers clues to my life outside of work) your email will be noticed.
My method of breaking in
My method of breaking in was:
1) Search on LinkedIn for companies I wanted to work for.
2) Looked at LinkedIn profiles for guys/girls I had something in common with (this helps facilitate conversation).
3) Used their LinkedIn name and company email format to get an email in front of them.
4) Kept my emails short and to the point. Asked to speak with them.
I had a very good response rate and it led to a FT offer.
Relinquis wrote: Saying
Saying thanks after receiving advice will increase your chances of being remembered.
It's also common courtesy.
"There are three ways to make a living in this business: be first, be smarter, or cheat."
God of Wine wrote: My method
My method of breaking in was:
1) Search on LinkedIn for companies I wanted to work for.
2) Looked at LinkedIn profiles for guys/girls I had something in common with (this helps facilitate conversation).
3) Used their LinkedIn name and company email format to get an email in front of them.
4) Kept my emails short and to the point. Asked to speak with them.
I had a very good response rate and it led to a FT offer.
can you post your background/gpa/major etc??
|| Everything to Gain - Nothing to Lose ||
But feeling good and enjoying life are prerequisites to success, not by products of it - Midas Mulligan Magoo
Emo_Rhino
Go to their corporate website. Sometimes there are direct emails to MDs on the website. Otherwise, call the main phone number. If HR picks up, ask to be transferred and ask for the individual's extension while you're at it. I actually like to call after-hours so I'm directed to the automated company directory. From there, I can look up anyone I want by name and write down their extension. The next day, I call them directly.
how do u know u want to transfer ur call to who?
Did you even READ my response? Go to their website and find out the names of the MDs in the division you're trying to break into.
"I can't wait to start working so I can auto-ding anyone who puts an objective/profile/qualifications section on their resume."
That's life isn't it. People
That's life isn't it. People forget about helping out their alums once got their own asses in.
I personally reached out to 40-50 alums in my sophomore year, and only one actually followed through and backed me till I got the offer for SA back in the day.
OP, find out where the person
OP, find out where the person lives and take a shit on their door step for ignoring you. that's what i do.
Flake wrote: I also get
I also get annoyed when someone asks me for advice and I spend a few minutes writing up an email but never receive a quick "Thanks." in return.
I concur. I am currently in b-school trying to "break in," and at the same time I receive an occasional email from an undergrad from my alma mater asking for advice. When someone responds to me, they get a reply immediately after I read the message even if it is just a quick "thanks." In the last week I replied to three or four kids looking for my advice, and I didn't get a reply back from any of them after I spent quite a bit of time answering their questions. It's probably petty, but I find it annoying nonetheless.
LTV wrote: Emo_Rhino
any advice on how to first get the ball rolling if say I were to email you or send you a linkedin message?
I have seen people start with generally asking for 'advice' but I thought maybe it is best to get straight to the point? Yes, I care about your advice, but most importantly I want to get a job at your company and this is my application resume to you for you to consider an interview for me or forward to someone who could.
I mean that is the hard truth right? But will that be too direct?
I (and most other professionals) are well aware of the real reason behind an "ask for advise" call/email. You should realize that every-time I offer to forward your resume to my boss, I'm putting my credibility at stake. I'm not going to do that unless I'm convinced you won't embarrass me. The "ask for advise" call is really a bullshit screener from my end (and boy, has it been useful).
Your best bet is to come across as a smart guy on that call by asking few smart, crisp questions. Towards the end of the call, you should have a sense of how impressed the guy on the other end is. On a scale of 1-10, if it's >7, just be straightup honest and ask if he'd be comfortable recommending you for an interview. If you think it went ok, but not great, ask if he'd critique your resume ... it's a great pretense to get your resume in front of someone.
the last part is pure GOLD.
"夸张只因我很怕似木头, 似石头的话得到注意吗?" 浮誇, 陳奕迅
Two things: If they are
Two things:
If they are important then they have other people they meet with often and have to be selective with who they meet.
If they decide not to meet with you, ignoring is the best option for them and you. Why should they waste their time crafting a nice email saying they can't meet. They can't just say no because it sounds like a rejection and often they have to be careful because they really don't know who they are emailing and their firm's reputation is on the line if they say something inappropriately. Although, you'd like to know about who says yes and no, in reality it's better for you if you don't see 20 nos a day.
Do what you want not what you can!
How does one ask for advice
How does one ask for advice when emailing someone with completely diff backround? (im an econ major)
ive just been emailing my resume to alumni asking if there are any summer opportunities at their firm and have only gotten one response (negative)
You guys need to put yourself
You guys need to put yourself in these ppl's shoes....random people asking you for a job...why would they go above and beyond if they have HR doing the hiring. That is the reason you need to find a way to connect. It's not always easy but it can be done. If you are not good at it, you need to refine your approach each time.
Do what you want not what you can!
I recognize they might be
I recognize they might be busy or they just simply don't want to reply. But personally I think they should, especially the alumni.
For example, after I got into college (one of the eight Ivies. take your pick), I received a number of e-mails from students from my high school asking for advice. I took my time and replied to everyone of them in detail. I remember those days when I would stay up really late to chat with them about last-minute Common App essay tips. A few asked to visit and wondered if I can show them around - and I did. If a college student can do it for high school kids, why can't professionals do the same for college kids? It's rather odd that many universities (including mine) boast about how great the alumni are, but they don't even talk to you when you contact them.
Just my opinion. Feedback will be appreciated.
A large majority of alumni
A large majority of alumni want to see how persistent and hungry you are - as a result, they will never respond to the first couple of emails. Your success rate will be much higher by being persistent and CALLING. If your school has a finance lab, use the PEOP function on bloomberg to look up the phone number of the alumni and CALL THEM! They will be much more responsive and impressed that you called them rather than hid behind an email, as someone has already mentioned.
Treat networking as a part time job. Keep an excel file of who've contacted and what you talked about so you can refer back to it later before you contact them again.
Maybe it's just me, but I
Maybe it's just me, but I feel that if I call, I'll just be really annoying them. E-mail is a bit subtler. But perhaps this is just a fear I need to overcome.
When you call you set up a
When you call you set up a time to talk in the future. Introduce yourself, say you want to learn more about what they do blah blah then say is there a time we can talk more in the future or I'm free now if you're not tied up? They'll respond to this well, since it gives them flexibility.
You need to overcome the fear of talking to them on the phone. You're out to get contacts and get your resume forwarded around - don't worry about "hassling" someone just because you want an interview - go out and get it and they'll respect you for that.
no one is going to be like
no one is going to be like "well they called me instead of emailing so i'm not going to help them." just pick a good time to call, don't ramble endlessly, and shit should be fine.
bumpthethread wrote: I
I recognize they might be busy or they just simply don't want to reply. But personally I think they should, especially the alumni.
No one should feel obliged to do anything. If one day I'm working as an analyst, and some random students from my alma mater send me a generic email, I shouldn't feel like I have to reply simply because of that university connection. Never been a fan of these help-by-association things (I have the same sentiments about fraternities, but let's not go there). I'll help you if I feel like it; otherwise, line up like everyone else.
Maybe it's just me, but I feel that if I call, I'll just be really annoying them. E-mail is a bit subtler. But perhaps this is just a fear I need to overcome.
1-minute spiel. If they're busy and don't have the time, they'll tell you. Takes them just as long to skim an email and send a reply... so why not do it over the phone and get an instant reply instead?
"I can't wait to start working so I can auto-ding anyone who puts an objective/profile/qualifications section on their resume."
bumpthethread wrote: About
About how many % of your e-mails (asking about opportunities/internships/etc) get ignored? I've been networking a lot lately, and while I have gotten many responses, some just plainly ignored it.
Now some of you may say "oh you know they are just busy." But I personally think that's just a really weak excuse. Typing a "yes" or "no" and hitting "send" takes about 5 seconds. There's no one on the planet who can be that busy.
Come think of it, maybe they think I'm dirt and not worthy of their time...Oh well
Mod (Andy) note: Great response below by Flake & LTV, "A few thoughts from someone on the other side:"
Instead of telling you the % of e-mails with no response, I'm going to tell you how to raise that %.
Add a "Referred by - John Doe" in front of your subject, it's magical how much it helps. Preferably someone they know, e.g. a former colleague, cousin or friend. Even if it is not someone they will immediately remember, it will still work.
SB to Flake because I know
SB to Flake because I know where you went to school.
I don't have as much useful
I don't have as much useful advice as other people here because we don't do this in Europe as much. However a couple of things I have picked up:
1.- Phone is better if you are good over the phone. Some people get extremely nervous or sound really robotic because they have scripted everything. You can make the argument that you will get better over time, which is true, but I still think some people will be better off using email.
2.- If you are going to call someone on the markets side DO NOT DO IT DURING MARKET HOURS. Your best bet would be to call at 17:00 ish. And this may sound ridiculous, but I wouldn't call in a day where the markets went crazy or some big shit happened. Chances are they'll be busier or just pissed off, and you just need to open the FT website to know.
3.- If you have a referral use it. If you don't but you have a connection through someone tell them in the email or over the phone. If this is a professional connection it can go a long way in helping you. For example, a couple of the associates and vps at my previous internship had worked at other firms, so when I interviewed at those firms this year I always brought it up, and it helped me out a lot. I always got a response to my thank you email saying something like "It was great talking to you, please don't hesitate to contact me if you have further questions. By the way, I talked to XXXX and he spoke very highly of you". That shit is priceless. Of course I'm assuming your previous bosses don't think you are an incompetent fool.
Apart from that I think there's some solid advice in the previous post and I don't want to repeat. Good luck to you man.
LTV][quote=Emo_Rhino
Has anyone actually done this? Just call the guy and ask him/her to recommend you for an interview? What did you say specifically?
bumpthethread][quote=LTV
Not that bluntly. Called up, told my 30 sec pitch about myself, then told how great their bank/company is, then talked 10-15 minutes about the company, then 10-15 min about guy's background. And only then asked if they could tell me how the recruiting process works at their company, and whether they could help me with recruiting. Usually they did, even though some folks still told me in the end: just apply online...
Ches wrote: SB to Flake
SB to Flake because I know where you went to school.
Do I know you somehow?
Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
I often forget to respond, it
I often forget to respond, it is good to be persistent. A key thing to remember is the line between being persistent and being insane. A majority of people are not persistent enough, a few are too persistent. I think the right balance is to try 3-4 times, spaced out appropriately, but if there is still no response after that then let it go. I have also noticed that sometimes a kid will impress me, and I will be willing to help them, but they don't really take me up on it. It's like picking up a girl and not having the balls to close.
Any thoughts on e-mailing a
Any thoughts on e-mailing a high ranking exec (e.g. managing partner) vs a mid level person (e.g. associate)? I feel like the top guys have a lot more important things to do, and an undergrad student like me will just be wasting his/her time.
In my opinion, if you have a
In my opinion, if you have a connection to the Managing Partner (have met them before, have a referral or some form of common connection) than you should use it. Otherwise an associate/VP would be more useful if contacting cold as an undergraduate student.