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Wall Street Oasis » Forums » Equity Research Rendezvous

Open for Questions - Equities in Dallas Forum's RSS Feed Share

thedude's picture
thedude
     ST
 
 
(Orangutan, 338
 
Points)
  on 2/20/12 at 5:56am
the-dude-lebowski.jpg

I figured I would start a thread where I just told my life story in finance and prospective monkeys and other curious lurkers could ask me questions involving my diverse experiences. Maybe it will be helpful to someone trying to make a tough decision. I currently work for an Institutional Research firm where I am Head of Institutional Sales. While I don't live in Dallas, some people do consider what I do to be the armpit of non-retail finance.

My background in pretty diverse and if you are curious why I chose to do one thing... I simply chose to do what appeared to be the best option available to me at the time:

I attended a top 25 non-target (regional target?) university and majored economics and I took a couple accounting classes. My grades were very so-so.

My first internship was at a $700 AUM fundamental value asset manager/hedge fund. They were fiercely independent (in research), long only and had 20 year annualized return of 17% at the time. I spent most my time learning about the Benjamin Graham investment philosophy and learning the very VERY basics of modeling. I could have never worked at this place because they only took on ~5 new positions a year and I would have died of boredom. I can't sit in a room thinking about stocks and doing original research for two months straight without pulling the trigger.

My next internship was with an NYSE Floor Broker. I was an "Assistant Clerk" which basically involved being everyone's lunch bitch. The most exciting experience from this was routing trades for clients. I was green enough, where I was impressed enough entering in 3,000,000 share order of BRCM. I also helped them with marketing to new clients (hedge funds). I could have never worked there because I hate standing on my feet for 7 hours straight and everyone felt like a dinosaur. Turn on CNBC today you can see the NYSE is a ghost town. Then it was more full but everyone could see the future so moral was shitty. Also, I wouldn't want to work in Manhattan in a job where you were considered to be doing really well at age 45 pulling in $200k a year. I have to say that I met some of the most interesting people I have known in my life during the job.

My third internship and my only experience with "high" finance was as a Fixed Income Summer Analyst at Bear Stearns. The year I was there Bear Stearns was named the "Best Investment Bank" to work for on Wall Street. I was lucky enough to land on the CMO Structure Desk in Financial Analytics and Structured Transactions (FAST). It was considered the best place to be in the entire bank because 1) Fixed Income was where the bank made all its money 2) MD at my desk was in charge of all the FAST interns (+100) and gave us the most full time offers 3) CMO Structure was considered the fastest track to becoming a trader -- traders were the highest paid employees at the bank. I probably could have worked there. For what we were were getting paid and compared to my other friends with investment bank internships, working 9-8/9 most days with most weekends free was pretty awesome. I didn't pursue working there because I didn't find rolling mortgage bonds all day to be that interesting. Frankly, it was probably a little over my head at the time. I remember like yesterday, while sitting in one of the lectures, a brave intern asking what would happen if real estate was in a bubble and what would happen if it burst. One of the ARMs guys explained how real estate values wouldn't drop more then 5% and the business would be fine. All of my fellow interns who took full time offers lost their jobs before they finished their contracts and most now work in fields outside of finance.

After graduating, the world of finance was in a tail spin, and a friend of mine (~30) who was a self made realestate mogul insisted I go work for him. He had just fired his property manager on his large office building in South Florida. I spent about a half a year building the last 4 stories of the building when he defaulted on his $12m loan and I was out of work again. I won't go too much into this job because it wasn't finance related but I learned some valuable life lessons and I enjoyed going to work in blue jeans and work boots.

From here I began flirting with the world of finance again. I applied and got a job with a top tier republican lobbying firm in DC. I joined their Financial Services Group and helped a variety of Mortgage Brokers, Hedge Funds, and Mutual Funds fight FINREG. While I did it all, I specialized in derivatives regulation -- and I know more then I care too about TARP and its offspring. I enjoyed what I would consider the lobbyist lifestyle... no one thinks twice if you aren't in your office for half the day, you can sip a Makers and Coke at 2pm at your desk and no one will say anything, you get paid a lot for what doesn't feel like that much work, ect. Ultimately though I came to the realization that it was my job to screw over the average American. I am a democrat and I started looking elsewhere.

And now we arrive at my current job. I interviewed with my company around my graduation, and they were impressed with me but unable to hire me because of the financial environment. I sent them an email asking if they were hiring and they were and less then a month later I was moving several thousand miles away to take a position in Institutional Equity Sales... and some very low ibanking.

People like to shit on my job and I understand why. I am a salesmen. I don't live in NYC. I work on commission. I suck at a lot of finance/accounting. It's extremely unlikely I (or anyone with my job) is going to be worth a bazillion dollars ever. I am a salesmen.

However, I think there is a lot to like about my job.

I don't think most monkeys on here can touch my quality of life. While I make very low 6 figures my money goes so much farther then here then in NYC. Most importantly, I only work 9-10 hours a day. I think the longest day I have ever worked was 13 hours and I have NEVER worked a weekend.

We technically are an investment bank, so I do have an opportunity to do things like capital raises and some M&A which I participate directly in.

My job, aside from making phone calls and emails to clients is watching the stock market. I feel like if I got fired tomorrow, the whole experience would be worth it because now I am confident I can run a good PA for the rest of my life.

I meet pretty cool people. One of the easiest ways for me to make money is to take company management on the road. Because of our research relationships -- we get the CEO's, CFO's and VP IR's of major corporations to go on trips with us to meet with clients. Our clients, who ideally become your friend, are analysts/pm's/cio's and the highest paid people in the world. Talking to them on a daily basis gives you are really interesting perspective and you feel more in touch then 99% of the people who you hear talk on CNBC.

If you aren't great at sales (I am so-so) but respected, you can get into an alpha capture program. I got invited to join 2 of the most prestigious about 9 months in. Basically, rather the calling up and telling someone to buy or short a stock you simply run a portfolio and they send you a check each month. Both of mine have been good for around $5000-20,000 a month each and I have yet to be in the top 7% of portfolio managers.

Also, it is possible to make a pretty large non NYC income. Given the market is completely different but my small firm made almost $7 million in 2007.

Finally, while I acknowledge I don't think contributing much to society, I am not causing any harm.

Well I didn't really mean to write a book but I just kept writing, and now I am bored so I am stopping. There is a lot more I could have said above so if something isn't clear or you have a question -- just ask. Ill log back on Tuesday. Cheers.

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Tags:
  • Institutional equity sales
  • Equity Research
  • Equity Research Rendezvous
Short Lucifer's picture

Awesome post thanks! Can you

Short Lucifer
    
 
(Monkey, 31
 
Points)
  on 2/17/12 at 7:37pm

Awesome post thanks!

Can you talk a little bit about how you got that lobbying job? and what you were doing? It sounds interesting

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky. Said by Michael Scott." - Michael Scott

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captainkoolaid's picture

interdasting

captainkoolaid
     IB
 
(Baboon, 106
 
Points)
  on 2/17/12 at 7:53pm

interdasting

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bortz911's picture

thedude wrote: It's extremely

bortz911
     IB
 
(Senior Baboon, 244
 
Points)
  on 2/17/12 at 8:42pm
thedude:

It's extremely unlikely I (or anyone with my job) is going to be worth a bazillion dollars ever. I am a salesmen.

It would be good for us youngsters if you could explain this one. I have seen S&T guys on messageboards defend institutional sales to death (versus IBK), arguing that the bonus potential is huge. Why is this not true? Isn't S&T meritocratic?

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thedude's picture

Short Lucifer wrote: Awesome

thedude
     ST
 
 
(Orangutan, 338
 
Points)
  on 2/17/12 at 9:19pm
Short Lucifer:

Awesome post thanks!

Can you talk a little bit about how you got that lobbying job? and what you were doing? It sounds interesting

Hey. Thanks for taking the time to read the post. I got the lobbying job by applying. I have a decent bit of experience working on campaigns and I spent the summer before college interning for a politician. The Financial Services group at my firm was the weakest division and when I started talking to the IR woman interviewing me about all the financial products I understood (and she looked at me like I was speaking chinese) I knew I was money. So the firm was considered one of the top white shoe lobbying firms in DC. I don't want to give the name because it would connect too many dots on linkedin. We represented a variety of interests from Fortune 100 companies to countries to non profits. One client I had was a multi billion dollar hedge fund with a large derivative position. I would keep them updated on legislative developments as well as trying to shape legislation for their benefit ex. blurring the definition of an end-user ect. The Firm really did everything from advising labor unions how best to apply political pressure to cabinet members facing an important decision, to helping clients identify eligibility for federal funding, to advising sovereign wealth funds on politically sensitive investments in the US. Ignoring the 4 partners, employees made between 60-500k a year based upon their perceived value and the size of their accounts. The firm made almost $20m one year.

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thedude's picture

bortz911 wrote: thedude

thedude
     ST
 
 
(Orangutan, 338
 
Points)
  on 2/17/12 at 9:44pm
bortz911:
thedude:

It's extremely unlikely I (or anyone with my job) is going to be worth a bazillion dollars ever. I am a salesmen.

It would be good for us youngsters if you could explain this one. I have seen S&T guys on messageboards defend institutional sales to death (versus IBK), arguing that the bonus potential is huge. Why is this not true? Isn't S&T meritocratic?

Hey thanks for responding -- I think it matters what you are selling and where you are selling. 1) As an institutional equity salesperson, I am a stock broker for hedge funds. What I am selling is extremely liquid and being sold by any number of much cheaper options. Explained otherwise, people don't have to trade through me at .03 or .05 or .10 a share. The only reason people give me money is if a) they like me and/or b) they think I am value add to their performance. I am not 100% positive but I imagine I could make more as an institutional sales person selling large illiquid mortgage derivatives. The second point addresses where I work. I work for a small institutional research b/d. I don't have 40 analysts and 300 names under coverage that you might find at a bigger bank. Hedge funds can only justify paying me so much because they can only get so much research from me. That wasn't a great answer because I am not really sure which posts you are referring to. It would be within the range of possibility that I could make 7 figures at my current job but I think that's very unlikely -- because I'm not a world class salesman.

As far as it being meritocratic, absolutely. I haven't been doing this for very long. Make almost as much as people working just as long at GS IB. And I work less then half the hours. Lot of people would say that sounds very compelling. (Side Note: I interviewed to work under a Financial Advisor at MSSB in DC named Marvin McIntyre (google if you want). He made like $7 million last year. The potential in financial advisory is huge if you are 1/bazillion. I know a whole lot more financial advisors making 30-50k a year. In almost any meritocracy you can find 1 or two people making it rain).

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UncleMilty's picture

It's always been interesting

UncleMilty
    
 
(Orangutan, 374
 
Points)
  on 2/17/12 at 9:37pm

It's always been interesting to me to see what distinguishes institutional equity folks from each other — and to see why they want to bother paying the extra cost. Do you feel that funds will continue to be willing to pay the premium for your services for the foreseeable future? How about 20 or 30 years down the road? What sort of innovation do you see in your industry?

Thanks!

"When I was young I thought that money was the most important thing in life; now that I am old I know that it is."
- Oscar Wilde
"Seriously, psychology is for those with two x chromosomes."
- RagnarDanneskjold

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thedude's picture

UncleMilty wrote: It's always

thedude
     ST
 
 
(Orangutan, 338
 
Points)
  on 2/17/12 at 10:10pm
UncleMilty:

It's always been interesting to me to see what distinguishes institutional equity folks from each other — and to see why they want to bother paying the extra cost. Do you feel that funds will continue to be willing to pay the premium for your services for the foreseeable future? How about 20 or 30 years down the road? What sort of innovation do you see in your industry?
Thanks!

I guess you would say what distinguishes our firm 1) our relationship with management. everyone tries to say this but it's only true for a few firms. Our CEO and to a lesser extent the rest of us actually hang out with management of a lot of the companies we cover socially 2) my firm has been around for almost 20 years, my ceo has been around for 30 and is well known in some circles. the "name" is very important because firms pop up and disappear every day 3) the quality of our analysts. some people would swap 2 & 3

What distinguishes a successful salesmen is are you likeable? and are you sharp? can you fool people smarter then you into believing you are smarter then them? Everything else falls behind.

I think we already see that funds won't pay what they used to (weak volume right now isnt helping). I imagine that trend will continue to a lesser extent. There are quite a few studies that have looked into the value of buy/sell/hold ratings and their questionable benefit. I think PM's will always value analysts expertise on a conversational basis. Obviously the crackdown on special networks helps my business but at the same time I see a lot of hedge funds relying more on internal research. Hedge funds continue to pay for access to management for the conceivable future. As long as portfolio managers continue to think they can beat the market by picking stocks, there will be a decent number of them willing to pay someone else to do the dart throwing for them.

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ERGOHOC's picture

oh your grammar and your

ERGOHOC
     AM
 
(Orangutan, 265
 
Points)
  on 2/17/12 at 10:58pm

oh your grammar and your spelling ....

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gstackle32's picture

Quote: My first internship

gstackle32
     O
 
(Senior Orangutan, 384
 
Points)
  on 2/17/12 at 11:17pm

My first internship was at a $700 AUM fundamental value asset manager/hedge fund

LOL you mean $700 MM right

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thedude's picture

ERGOHOC wrote: oh your

thedude
     ST
 
 
(Orangutan, 338
 
Points)
  on 2/17/12 at 11:48pm
ERGOHOC:

oh your grammar and your spelling ....

Hey, I wrote all that with only 1 contact!

gstackle32:

My first internship was at a $700 AUM fundamental value asset manager/hedge fund

LOL you mean $700 MM right

yes lol.

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rothyman's picture

Bravo +1

rothyman
     HF
 
 
(Senior Gorilla, 975
 
Points)
  on 2/18/12 at 12:25am

Bravo

+1

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manopete's picture

Great post, I'm curious about

manopete
    
 
(Senior Chimp, 21
 
Points)
  on 2/18/12 at 12:47am

Great post, I'm curious about comp ; what do 50th, 75th, top 10% percentile earners make as salesman?
Also, have you ever compared the career to PE Business Development - any thought?

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GoodBread's picture

Very cool. When you say you

GoodBread
     AM
 
 
(Neanderthal, 3,057
 
Points)
  on 2/18/12 at 12:56am

Very cool. When you say you could run a solid PA, do you mean you could actually live off yours?

Financial Modeling Training
Guide to Finance Interviews

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n1cktm's picture

Are you the same thedude from

n1cktm
    
 
(Baboon, 154
 
Points)
  on 2/18/12 at 1:50am

Are you the same thedude from xtremesystems? I remember posting there when I was looking to build a pc

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trade4size's picture

Seems like the OP here

trade4size
     ST
 
 
(Neanderthal, 2,116
 
Points)
  on 2/18/12 at 4:00am

Seems like the OP here certainly fits the mold of a typical salestrader. Being in the same position myself its crazy to see how different at different shops have totally different attitudes/values. Overall would say this is how the average salestrader lives. There is of course always another story to be told.

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.

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Cmoss's picture

Good Post, thank you

Cmoss
     O
 
(Orangutan, 320
 
Points)
  on 2/18/12 at 5:09am

Good Post, thank you

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Walkerr's picture

Great post, thanks for

Walkerr
     IB
 
(Gorilla, 548
 
Points)
  on 2/18/12 at 8:51am

Great post, thanks for explaining your career steps in detailed.

I was also interested reading about the lobbying position you had. I was thinking of going into lobbying if M&A doesn't work out. I know the two are quite different. Do you have any tips on entering the lobbying world? What qualifications are needed (i'm studying finance now), what do firms look for?
And last, how is the lobbying world?

Thanks!

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Rumplesmoothspin's picture

Great post and a great

Rumplesmoothspin
    
 
(Senior Baboon, 214
 
Points)
  on 2/18/12 at 10:09am

Great post and a great insight into a role that I particularly didn't like in my experience. I can safely say its not a job for me although I do have some questions.

I have very rarely come across an equity salesperson who liked what they did. That being said, those who did, loved it and did very well.

What do you offer your clients that the bigger brokerage houses/IBs cant? I am guessing its probably the more personal coverage or maybe not lol? View would be much appreciated.

I remember the FICC guys used to bash the equity salespeople day in and day out and commented on the lack of any real exit ops. In reality, for someone who either finds themselves out of work or is looking to change direction a little, what can they realistically look to get into?

When do you sleep?...Sunday

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bortz911's picture

thedude

bortz911
     IB
 
(Senior Baboon, 244
 
Points)
  on 2/18/12 at 10:42am
thedude:

explanation

Thanks!

Another one that I forgot to ask: You mention hedge funds as your customers. Are they the majority of your clients? I always felt like equities (ignoring HFT/algorithms for a second) were dominated by mutual funds, insurance companies, pension funds, etc.

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two.N.twenty's picture

Great post. I had never heard

two.N.twenty
     IB
 
(Senior Chimp, 17
 
Points)
  on 2/18/12 at 1:14pm

Great post.

I had never heard of alpha Capture until I read your post, how exactly does it work?

You mentioned having to be invited, so I'm guessing you need some sort of track record; what's more important to get invited, having a strong resume or having actually executed successful trades on your own?

How do the payouts work? Can you provided names of a few of these programs?

Thanks

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TraderDaily's picture

Fantastic post!!! Made my day

TraderDaily
    
 
(Senior Gorilla, 754
 
Points)
  on 2/18/12 at 4:44pm

Fantastic post!!! Made my day today when i signed on to WSO.

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thedude's picture

manopete wrote: Great post,

thedude
     ST
 
 
(Orangutan, 338
 
Points)
  on 2/18/12 at 4:53pm
manopete:

Great post, I'm curious about comp ; what do 50th, 75th, top 10% percentile earners make as salesman?
Also, have you ever compared the career to PE Business Development - any thought?

Thanks. The first is a tough question because it all depends on the firm. Lot's of small pop up firms you are just basically cold calling pm's wondering how you are going to pay rent next month. My firm has been around long enough where no calls are ever that cold. I have a list of 100 hf's that used to pay us and don't anymore simply because their salesperson is no longer here and the current people don't have any more bandwidth. I would say half of green people who might look like a good fit at my firm wouldn't be able to crack 100k. In the glory years, several people at my firm made +500k and I know at least one person made 7 figs. The business is different. If you work for a top bank I imagine you can make an ok salary even if you suck.

Never thought about how my job compares to PE Business Development but I would be interested if someone else has.

GoodBread:

Very cool. When you say you could run a solid PA, do you mean you could actually live off yours?

Unfortunately no. I just mean I don't really think people have a clue how to invest/trade... even people that have been pretty active in the markets in their etrade account. I feel confident now in my ability to crank out steady returns which should benefit me the rest of my life.

n1cktm:

Are you the same thedude from xtremesystems? I remember posting there when I was looking to build a pc

no haha.

trade4size:

Seems like the OP here certainly fits the mold of a typical salestrader. Being in the same position myself its crazy to see how different at different shops have totally different attitudes/values. Overall would say this is how the average salestrader lives. There is of course always another story to be told.

Im not a salestrader actually. Just sales. I'd be curious to know if your firm has completely different values. Share.

Cmoss:

Good Post, thank you

You're welcome. Thanks for reading.

Walkerr:

Great post, thanks for explaining your career steps in detailed.
I was also interested reading about the lobbying position you had. I was thinking of going into lobbying if M&A doesn't work out. I know the two are quite different. Do you have any tips on entering the lobbying world? What qualifications are needed (i'm studying finance now), what do firms look for?
And last, how is the lobbying world?
Thanks!

Thanks. The lobbying business is pretty difficult to jump into and make a big splash. The real thing they are looking for is connections so the best way -- unfortunately -- is be do a stint working for the government. Retired politicians, legislative directors, senior staff members on committees, senior staff members to cabinet secretaries, campaign finance chairs ect ect ect are going to be the people that really have the upper hand. If you really want to start from lobbying and work your way up, I recommend that you work on your cocktail party skills and have an expertise in an industry -- though not necessary. It's like banking, if you want to be a revenue generator -- you need to be likeable and have an expertise, if you want to work in a support capacity (at least for the time being) you primarily just need to work hard. The most valuable degree to break into lobbying would be a JD.
The lobbying world is great. The more the government tries to change things (reform) the more businesses get scared and want to fight it and have a say in how tomorrow will look.

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thedude's picture

Rumplesmoothspin wrote: Great

thedude
     ST
 
 
(Orangutan, 338
 
Points)
  on 2/18/12 at 5:06pm
Rumplesmoothspin:

Great post and a great insight into a role that I particularly didn't like in my experience. I can safely say its not a job for me although I do have some questions.

What do you offer your clients that the bigger brokerage houses/IBs cant? I am guessing its probably the more personal coverage or maybe not lol? View would be much appreciated.

I remember the FICC guys used to bash the equity salespeople day in and day out and commented on the lack of any real exit ops. In reality, for someone who either finds themselves out of work or is looking to change direction a little, what can they realistically look to get into?

Thanks. We offer a more personal experience I would say. I don't live in NYC and my firm covers all of the local businesses (fortunately some hedge fund favorites). We are the go to firm for analysis on those companies and also because our relationship with their management we get the CEO's for a lot of marketing trips. My boss is also a world class salesmen/partier. We have more then a few clients that pay us because they like to hang out with us when we go to NYC. Getting them trashed and then laid is a pretty safe sales strategy. Fortunately I am young and my exit ops are pretty strong application for graduate school. I think any job that is more sales and less analytical are in your exit cards.

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TraderDaily's picture

You mention the comp model

TraderDaily
    
 
(Senior Gorilla, 754
 
Points)
  on 2/18/12 at 5:10pm

You mention the comp model for Sales assuming the Salesman worked on commission. What about pay for salesmen who work for mid-market/large banks?

Also, I sent you a PM.

Great post! Thanks.

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thedude's picture

bortz911 wrote: thedude

thedude
     ST
 
 
(Orangutan, 338
 
Points)
  on 2/18/12 at 6:31pm
bortz911:
thedude:

explanation

Thanks!
Another one that I forgot to ask: You mention hedge funds as your customers. Are they the majority of your clients? I always felt like equities (ignoring HFT/algorithms for a second) were dominated by mutual funds, insurance companies, pension funds, etc.

You are welcome. The vast majority of my clients and revenue come from hedge funds. I mentioned this earlier but my firm is really small. Mutual Funds/Insurance Companies/Pension Funds ect have an investment strategy that really is not going to pay me a lot of money. They are typically very diversified and don't have that much turnover. I get votes, half votes ect from these firms, and it's appreciated but it's never going to make me rich. We don't offer them enough value. You do want to maintain a good relationship with them because some companies' management prefer to meet with long term investors over hedge funds... That being said the firms second best client is a huge Mutual Fund. My boss made the biggest PM his best friend, we hardly do any work for them and get an absurd amount of their votes.

two.N.twenty:

Great post.
I had never heard of alpha Capture until I read your post, how exactly does it work?
You mentioned having to be invited, so I'm guessing you need some sort of track record; what's more important to get invited, having a strong resume or having actually executed successful trades on your own?
How do the payouts work? Can you provided names of a few of these programs?
Thanks

Thanks. Alpha Capture is a way for HF's to more accurately judge broker recommendations. You don't have to have strong research and stock picking abilities to be a great institutional equity salesmen. I mean a big part of sales is hyping up your winners and making people forget the losers -- having people like you -- taking people out to dinner -- ect. With Alpha Capture, you are basically given a portfolio platform that you can invest and trade on your whim. Selecting position sizes, submitting investment thesis, time horizons, conviction levels ect. You may have never been able to get a PM to like you and listen to you long enough to ever take a position and pay you... but with alpha capture he is looking at you trading a portfolio, and if you are killing it he takes notice and starts making the trades himself.
So on now how I got into an alpha capture program. The first one the firm got entirely on it's reputation. An 11 figure HF called up and said they wanted someone from my firm and my boss gave it to me. I ended up going the first 4 months in the top 15% of contributors every month on total return with an average gearing of 28% (sick). About two and a half months into the first program I started cold calling other alpha capture programs recommending that they take me on. I got another 11 figure one to sign me up after a couple of phone interviews -- and after a trial period -- I am running on that one too. Anyway continue to do really well in both.
They compensate you based upon the return of the portfolio relative to the index and on total return, either quarterly or monthly. Because it's more entrepreneurial and the funds don't really care about talking to analysts I take home 50% of the commission which makes them even more lucrative then traditional sales.

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trade4size's picture

Ok so if you are just sales

trade4size
     ST
 
 
(Neanderthal, 2,116
 
Points)
  on 2/18/12 at 6:30pm

Ok so if you are just sales when you get orders are you relaying them to the traders? I cant imagine the traders at a shop like that stay very busy at all as you definitely dont have monster flow. i am trying to figure out what shop you are with but im pretty stumped.

As much as I would love to post more I just am not comfortable and I have probably already said too much. I am sure we have some mutual clients as well which makes thing interesting.

Have you had any luck with Vanilla asset managers at places with say 500mm-2bln AUM?

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.

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thedude's picture

trade4size wrote: Ok so if

thedude
     ST
 
 
(Orangutan, 338
 
Points)
  on 2/18/12 at 7:42pm
trade4size:

Ok so if you are just sales when you get orders are you relaying them to the traders? I cant imagine the traders at a shop like that stay very busy at all as you definitely dont have monster flow. i am trying to figure out what shop you are with but im pretty stumped.
As much as I would love to post more I just am not comfortable and I have probably already said too much. I am sure we have some mutual clients as well which makes thing interesting.
Have you had any luck with Vanilla asset managers at places with say 500mm-2bln AUM?

Our sales traders are not very busy... *sigh*... Our revenue is now 2 to 1, checks to trades.
Not much luck with the vanilla asset managers outside our local ones. Ill send anyone research if they ask me to but I only really call them when I have company management in town. I have local guys with 30mm AUM as paying clients. I accept all payments... no matter how small.

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Hoogerman's picture

What do you think is your

Hoogerman
     O
 
(Senior Baboon, 243
 
Points)
  on 2/18/12 at 8:47pm

What do you think is your next step?

I banana back

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Gate_Crasher's picture

Good Stuff. Will read your

Gate_Crasher
     IB
 
(Baboon, 154
 
Points)
  on 2/19/12 at 10:36am

Good Stuff.

Will read your book as long as it goes into details and motivates one.

Thank you

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Gate_Crasher's picture

Do you get paid a base salary

Gate_Crasher
     IB
 
(Baboon, 154
 
Points)
  on 2/19/12 at 11:14am

Do you get paid a base salary or do you get paid purely on a commission basis ?

Thank you

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TraderDaily's picture

What do you read in the

TraderDaily
    
 
(Senior Gorilla, 754
 
Points)
  on 2/19/12 at 12:25pm

What do you read in the morning before your day gets started? Financial Times?

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TraderDaily's picture

You said you sometimes get to

TraderDaily
    
 
(Senior Gorilla, 754
 
Points)
  on 2/20/12 at 10:18am

You said you sometimes get to work on capital raising and M&A. Could you elaborate more on this side of your job and how a typical day works as it relates to this, especially for M&A?

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acelion's picture

Hey thedude,

acelion
    
 
(Chimp, 3
 
Points)
  on 2/20/12 at 12:47pm

Hey thedude,

Is it possible you can pm me the fundamental value hedge fund you worked for? I am interested in working for a fundamental value firm. Thank you for doing this. It has been insightful.

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TraderDaily's picture

What does an Equity Salesman

TraderDaily
    
 
(Senior Gorilla, 754
 
Points)
  on 2/20/12 at 1:57pm

What does an Equity Salesman do the first two years at a bank? I'm assuming that the first two years you don't have direct client responsibility.

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ProdigyOfZen's picture

bortz911 wrote: thedude

ProdigyOfZen
     ST
 
(Orangutan, 337
 
Points)
  on 2/24/12 at 9:37am
bortz911:
thedude:

It's extremely unlikely I (or anyone with my job) is going to be worth a bazillion dollars ever. I am a salesmen.

It would be good for us youngsters if you could explain this one. I have seen S&T guys on messageboards defend institutional sales to death (versus IBK), arguing that the bonus potential is huge. Why is this not true? Isn't S&T meritocratic?

The S&T you are talking about is sales and trading in Fixed Income not in Equities.. In FI institutional you can make quite a lot.

What I mean by quite a lot is if you have 5 good accounts you can pull in anywhere from 50 to 100k a month as a salesman. Now if you work at a regional broker dealer the payout is usually around 45 to 50% of that amount. If you work at a large Ibank you get a % of what you gross per year as bonus.

The one who does not fall, does not stand up

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thedude's picture

Hoogerman wrote: What do you

thedude
     ST
 
 
(Orangutan, 338
 
Points)
  on 2/24/12 at 12:15pm
Hoogerman:

What do you think is your next step?

Good question. I have days where I don't like my job but I am in a nice sweet spot here where I make an income that is acceptable for my age and I love my hours. I think if I leave this current job it will be to get a masters.

Gate_Crasher:

Good Stuff.
Will read your book as long as it goes into details and motivates one.
Thank you

Thanks.

Gate_Crasher:

Do you get paid a base salary or do you get paid purely on a commission basis ?
Thank you

You would typically be on 100% commissions with a draw at my firm which is basically a minimum you are guaranteed to get paid -- but then have to pay back the difference when you do make commission. I receive a small base in addition to commissions because I perform some managerial duties.

TraderDaily:

What do you read in the morning before your day gets started? Financial Times?

I flip on the tv... crunch through a ton of blast emails... then I read blogs and some news websites. I don't usually read FT.com till after the morning rush.

TraderDaily:

You said you sometimes get to work on capital raising and M&A. Could you elaborate more on this side of your job and how a typical day works as it relates to this, especially for M&A?

Keep in mind I said we are the bottom feeders of the investment banking world. I personally don't really work on M&A anymore now that I am heading up our sales efforts. We have 3 people that are dedicated investment bankers right now which do that. As far as capital raises go it pretty much is what it sounds like. A business comes to us needing capital, we value the business, and try to get it for them however we think best. As how I could be involved in that process, I could source the business (finders fee) or I could sell the deal to my network of contacts. At the lower end, we could agree to do a $2m Series A in 100k units and I could simply call up any of the PM's I know and recommend that they buy 1 or 2 for their PA. On the higher end we are raising 10-20mm part of a larger syndicate and getting funds to directly invest. Because of our size, that sort of thing usually comes by way of connections where a friend of the firm agrees to give us a piece. We get in the selling group of ipo's and secondary offerings occasionally...

acelion:

Hey thedude,
Is it possible you can pm me the fundamental value hedge fund you worked for? I am interested in working for a fundamental value firm. Thank you for doing this. It has been insightful.

The firm is small enough where they could instantly put my name with them. You should be able to find them with a minimal amount of googling. They are sort of like cults.

TraderDaily:

What does an Equity Salesman do the first two years at a bank? I'm assuming that the first two years you don't have direct client responsibility.

I am not really the best person to answer this question.

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TraderDaily's picture

Hi thedude, Why do you want

TraderDaily
    
 
(Senior Gorilla, 754
 
Points)
  on 2/24/12 at 12:32pm

Hi thedude,

Why do you want to work in equities when in fixed income, you could as some other poster mentioned, make around 600K to 1.2 million roughly per year in fixed income sales? I can understand your liking equities, but that kind of money sounds too good to turn down. Why not fixed income?

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thedude's picture

TraderDaily wrote: Hi

thedude
     ST
 
 
(Orangutan, 338
 
Points)
  on 2/24/12 at 1:36pm
TraderDaily:

Hi thedude,
Why do you want to work in equities when in fixed income, you could as some other poster mentioned, make around 600K to 1.2 million roughly per year in fixed income sales? I can understand your liking equities, but that kind of money sounds too good to turn down. Why not fixed income?

Reread the beginning of my first post. Why would I be an institutional equity sales person if I could make $500k as a fixed income sales person? Why would I do that if I could be a banker and make +$1m a year? Why would I do that if I could be a hedge fund PM and make +$3m a year? These are silly questions. Almost at every step of my life I have taken what I considered to be the best opportunity for me at the time. Now I am in a place where I could probably go after a high profile job in NYC... but I don't need to or want to.

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TraderDaily's picture

thedude wrote: TraderDaily

TraderDaily
    
 
(Senior Gorilla, 754
 
Points)
  on 2/24/12 at 2:10pm
thedude:
TraderDaily:

Hi thedude,
Why do you want to work in equities when in fixed income, you could as some other poster mentioned, make around 600K to 1.2 million roughly per year in fixed income sales? I can understand your liking equities, but that kind of money sounds too good to turn down. Why not fixed income?

Reread the beginning of my first post. Why would I be an institutional equity sales person if I could make $500k as a fixed income sales person? Why would I do that if I could be a banker and make +$1m a year? Why would I do that if I could be a hedge fund PM and make +$3m a year? These are silly questions. Almost at every step of my life I have taken what I considered to be the best opportunity for me at the time. Now I am in a place where I could probably go after a high profile job in NYC... but I don't need to or want to.

OK. I love equities myself so I can understand your passion. No matter how much money there is in something else, you have to do your passion. That's the only way you'll do well. Personally I understand where you're coming from since I don't really care for fixed income either. Something about it just isn't as exciting no matter how much they try to jazz it up with securitization of credit cards, car loans, etc. And besides, that stuff helped crash the market in 2008 anyway. Equities and Equity derivs will never go away.

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