Is it Harder to get a FT role after SA at top banks ? 
I just read this article and I'm actually in a similar situation.
http://news.efinancialcareers.com/73304/guest-comment-why-i-wish-id-chos...
Basically the guy claims that getting an offer from GS SA program is a lot harder than getting an offer from lower-tier firms.
I'm actually in a similar situation, I have 2 SA offers, one from MS and one from HSBC.
Obviously I would prefer MS but Job offer at HSBC > >>>>>>>> SA with no offer at MS...
Is there some truth to this article or is it just a bitter ranting prick that sucked at his internship ?
MS is known for its high conversion rate, it was around 70% last year (it went up to 90% in good years...), and HR told us that their policy was to hire whoever was good enought because we were already within the 2013 headcount... but their intern classe is apparently bigger this year so who knows...
This thread is probably stupid but I'm just a scared monkey trying to secure a job for 2 or 3 years to escape the graduate unemployed crowd
that is correct about GS.
that is correct about GS. I've heard otherwise for MS. I would take my chances on MS.
if you go into it thinking
if you go into it thinking you might be in the bottom 30% that's likely where you will end up.
GS is known for hiring a shitload of SA's and having a relatively low conversion rate, but most other banks are not like that. You even said that MS is normally in the 70-90% range, so why are you even worried?
I'm worried because I don't
I'm worried because I don't trust that much HR marketing BS...
And no I will definitely not be in the bottom 30% if I'm assigned specific tasks.
I'm really strong technically and know my stuff, I just have to avoid failing at fetching coffee and such.
But I'm really bad at all the networking and ass-licking stuff.
I actually stopped GS process halfway trought when I learned that there were no "formal rotations" and that the bank expected you to go running in circles looking for some comprehensive MD to push for your offer...
Anyway thanks for your answers, if this is GS specific then I'll stop worrying and focus on what's important.
lolgpa wrote: I actually
I actually stopped GS process halfway trought when I learned that there were no "formal rotations" and that the bank expected you to go running in circles looking for some comprehensive MD to push for your offer...
This is not true
lolgpa wrote: I'm worried
I'm worried because I don't trust that much HR marketing BS...
But I'm really bad at all the networking and ass-licking stuff.
This is what business is... Also if you go into it with that perspective of course you won't enjoy networking. Now, if you go into it with a positive mindset, thinking you will meet many new and awesome people who you might not have met otherwise it can really change your perspective. I don't really ass lick anymore, I love getting to know new people, hearing their stories, and perspectives and the majority of the time they end up liking me. Its a win-win.
Bitter prick that sucked at
Bitter prick that sucked at his internship. Seems like he had a shitty attitude the entire time. GS is known for having a lower offer rate than some of the other banks, but that doesn't mean he was SOL. Must have really fucked up recruiting for FT to get nothing with GS on his resume.
Morgan's recruiting process
Morgan's recruiting process is a bit different from a lot of other firms. Other firms (i.e. Goldman) have a 'weed out' mentality, i.e. they'd rather wildly overhire for the summer and take more than double the summers they need to fill their FT class, throw everyone into a pit, and let the dirtiest, meanest ones survive from the scrap. Morgan has a 'weed in' deal, where the recruiting process is much more challenging but if you get the summer offer, the FT offer is yours to lose. After taking so much pain to get to know you and bring you in, it's disadvantageous to have to go out and bring someone else in during FT hiring. There are naturally the ones who realize the industry isn't for them and who self-select themselves out plus the ones who can't cut it, but other than that, it's a very, very high offer rate.
A lot of people do certain things to add days to their life. I do things to add life to my days.
From what I understand, the
From what I understand, the low offer-rate thing for GS only applies to S&T. I've heard that banking is in the 80-90% range, where the people who didn't get FT offers were ones who just generally weren't a good fit.
asiamoney wrote: From what I
From what I understand, the low offer-rate thing for GS only applies to S&T. I've heard that banking is in the 80-90% range, where the people who didn't get FT offers were ones who just generally weren't a good fit.
I don't believe so. I had a good friend who didn't get his return offer, smart, humble, mentally quick guy who I can't believe wouldn't have succeeded. He said they were very frank on the last Friday -- it was simply a matter of headcount.
A lot of people do certain things to add days to their life. I do things to add life to my days.
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if this is how you feel I
if this is how you feel I think you should reconsider S&T...
Matthias wrote: This is what
This is what business is... Also if you go into it with that perspective of course you won't enjoy networking. Now, if you go into it with a positive mindset, thinking you will meet many new and awesome people who you might not have met otherwise it can really change your perspective. I don't really ass lick anymore, I love getting to know new people, hearing their stories, and perspectives and the majority of the time they end up liking me. Its a win-win.
Yep I think you are right. I should work on my perspective and stop looking at every opportunity with sunglasses.
Morgan's recruiting process is a bit different from a lot of other firms. Other firms (i.e. Goldman) have a 'weed out' mentality, i.e. they'd rather wildly overhire for the summer and take more than double the summers they need to fill their FT class, throw everyone into a pit, and let the dirtiest, meanest ones survive from the scrap. Morgan has a 'weed in' deal, where the recruiting process is much more challenging but if you get the summer offer, the FT offer is yours to lose. After taking so much pain to get to know you and bring you in, it's disadvantageous to have to go out and bring someone else in during FT hiring. There are naturally the ones who realize the industry isn't for them and who self-select themselves out plus the ones who can't cut it, but other than that, it's a very, very high offer rate.
Ty, I'll stop creating artificial void issues and just go with MS....
asiamoney wrote: From what I
From what I understand, the low offer-rate thing for GS only applies to S&T. I've heard that banking is in the 80-90% range, where the people who didn't get FT offers were ones who just generally weren't a good fit.
I have heard differently, that GS' low offer rate definitely applies to IBD.
^^don't know about S&T but
^^don't know about S&T but definitely IBD corp fin stuff
Who told you MS converts 70%
Who told you MS converts 70% of their S&T interns into full time? Is this for NY? Because my friend just mentioned last night, that her friend worked at MS in S&T in NY last summer, and out of about 30 interns, they gave 7 full time offers (or maybe only 7 accepted, but even so, the offer rate couldn't have been very high). Maybe she misheard but I doubt it.
Asia is a different story though.
bcf2011 wrote: Who told you
Who told you MS converts 70% of their S&T interns into full time? Is this for NY? Because my friend just mentioned last night, that her friend worked at MS in S&T in NY last summer, and out of about 30 interns, they gave 7 full time offers (or maybe only 7 accepted, but even so, the offer rate couldn't have been very high). Maybe she misheard but I doubt it.
Asia is a different story though.
Last year in London, 38 ou of 55 interns got FT offers.
Does anyone else have input
Does anyone else have input on the GS IBD FT offer rate for SAs in New York? I've continued to hear really conflicting information.
I know IBD interns who said like 6/7 or 11/13 of people in their group (depending on its size) were given return offers and that the people who didn't were clearly not meeting expectations. I've heard people on WSO swear that the rate hovers closer to 60%.
Someone I spoke with assured me that the reputation for a low offering rate is purely due to the securities division (which apparently does definitely have a low rate), and not banking. Any comments on this?
Thanks!
asiamoney wrote: Does anyone
Does anyone else have input on the GS IBD FT offer rate for SAs in New York? I've continued to hear really conflicting information.
I know IBD interns who said like 6/7 or 11/13 of people in their group (depending on its size) were given return offers and that the people who didn't were clearly not meeting expectations. I've heard people on WSO swear that the rate hovers closer to 60%.
Someone I spoke with assured me that the reputation for a low offering rate is purely due to the securities division (which apparently does definitely have a low rate), and not banking. Any comments on this?
Thanks!
I've been told by someone in IBD there that it is indeed lower than other banks.
lower rate..i even asked an
lower rate..i even asked an MD about it and he got really pissy