Nope, but from what I've been given to understand, he believes in me.

Don't think this is a troll, even if it is, I don't really care.

Yes, there are Christians outside of the Bible belt. No, I don't believe in Jesus as the son of God. Yes, I believe in what Jesus preached.

When Christians start practicing what Jesus preached instead of preaching what he preached and acting like a bunch of controlling morons, then you will get some respect.

Your religions are a joke. You do not preach tolerance, you preach hate. When your organizations stop lobbying my government to strip my friends of their rights, then I will show them some respect. If you want to live a certain lifestyle, great, go for it. Until you stop trying to MAKE me live your lifestyle, go fuck yourself. Feel free to engage me in discussion about why your lifestyle is better, but don't you dare try and take my rights from me.

My bible is the Jefferson Bible.

I'd give you a raging SB if I had some to spare.

How can anyone look around at the world and universe and not believe that there is a higher power? You are fooling yourself if you think all this just some how appeared from absolute nothing.

One thing that atheists always point to to debunk religion is science/big bang theory .... one thing those same atheists cant answer is how the hell the elements were there for the big bang theory to happen

Sure, then that should lead you to believe that there is a high power(s). Our form of religions (Islam, Christianity, etc) may or may not be correct (who knows). Knowing what we know, i think It's more of a stretch to say there is no higher power then for someone to say there is.

Occum's razor dictates that we accept that what we see is what we have unless shown otherwise, and since saying there is a God doesn't solve the question of "why is there something other than nothing?" we don't assume a God. If an uber-higher power created that higher power, what created that uber-higher power? What created that uber-uber power? And so on... There's no logical conclusion here.

I think it's impossible to say whether or not there is a god. I don't believe there is a god, but I DON'T believe that there is NO god.

There are smug douchebag Christians, just like there are smug douchebag atheists.

To plagiarize:

Religion Is Like a Penis
It's fine to have one.
It's fine to be proud of it.
But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around.
And please don't try to shove it down kids throats.

I haven't read enough on religion(s) to formulate an educated opinion which is why I don't discuss religion. All I know is that when I seek peace I go to the mosque and I feel much better....it might all be a spoof but I don't think a 23 year old has the wisdom to dismiss the concept of religion and of God.

1.5 billion people in the world are Christians, 1 billion are Muslims. I think there might be some smart people in those respective populations. Now when religion is used as a political tool (most middle eastern countries and the bible belt here in the States) then I completely stand against that. I think what you believe should be a very private thing and something that shouldn't be forced on people.

I was raised Catholic, spent time in a pre-semenary, rebelled, and now am a middle of the road worshipper. TRANSLATION: I go to church to maintain certain social networks, but am an atheist who sincerely wishes he could have the faith of his childhood back BUT does not lose any sleep over it. The below may help you in your questioning.

1. Jesus' existence is not a verified historical fact. The Romans kept very good records but do not have one for Jesus. The basic facts of Jesus' life are consistent, however, throughout the ancient texts: parents, nationality, etc...

2. Jesus and his followers were seen as a political threat, and therefore he was executed. Crucifixion, as gruesome as it is, was nothing special for the Romans. There was a jewish faction involved, but there were also Jews who wanted him alive: Jesus was a Jew. I find antisemtism to be just silly. The Romans whacked the guy, and if they hadn't done it sooner at the behest of the Pharisees, then rest assured they would have done it of thier own volition. One of the Roman Empire's hallmarks was the efficiency with which order was kept.....

3. Jesus divinity increases through the four Gospels, and the farther away from the time of death each gospel was written, the more 'divine' Jesus becomes. Some gospels are omitted because they don't fit the 'official' version of Christianity.

4. The Catholic Church as we know it is the result of a desperate and dying Roman empire reconciling the rapidly growing cult of Jesus with its own pagan religion. The halo of the military's god Mars was added to the saints (other cults gods) in order to keep their support - this is one example. My favorite is the concept of Hades becoming Hell: the worst punishment for slaves was to tend to the underground fires that heated the baths the Romans were so fond of: the mythologies mixed and merged and were formalized by Dantes centuries later in his concept of the 'lake of fire' aka the torturous subterranean pits of coal and fire underneath the ground. (For those of you considering a Phd in religion, this is uncharted territory)

5. Numerous revisions, reinterpretations, and factions of Christianity emegerged as a reflection of the believers' state of mind and state of life. In times of war, Christ condoned 'just war'. In times of peace, Christ is a loving hippie. Beliefs and actions are correlated, and causation flows in both directions. People who blame religion are oversimplifying, just as much as people trying to justify things with religion. The Bible is a library of ancient texts with enough literary diversity to justify almost anything, and is interpreted according to the needs of the times, the people, and especially the leaders [for better or worse]. Christianity, like any other religion, is a medium of social communication: constructive and destrucive things can be transmitted and implemented through this medium, not unlike the news. It is a double edged sword. The nature of a person's faith is more reflective of their overall state of mind more than anything else and is a good superficial indicator.

6. I am not making the above point to defend religion, merely to set the record straight. Also for the record: religious leaders are merely human and just as prone as any other leader to abuse their power. This neither validates, nor invalidates the belief system. When it comes to religion and faith, you believe it or you don't, it's very simple.

7. Basic neuropsychology indicates a small part of the brain responsible for religious faith: this center is activated during certain types of communal worship and also meditation {prayer, if you will}. It is also activated by extreme trauma, and is a basic survival mechanism whose full potential is not fully understood. Certain drugs, most famously LSD, act directly on this center as well.

8. These drug experiences, while giving chemical control of a very primal neural center, have the major downside of hijacking one of nature's most basic survival mechanisms. You decide where you stand on this issue. Personaly, I erre on the side of caution with this one: it is the psychological equivalent of plutonium and can be used constructively or cause enormous devestation.

9. Religion channels this energy, again, for better or worse. Christ was one of many 'Messiahs' aka "MESSENGERS" of that period of time. There were ancient texts fortelling of messengers, and so when one came along who was a fit, the prophesy was completed. It was no big deal for an orator to identify themselves as the son of Zeus, or the heir of Posieden: this language was the currency of pop culture every bit as much as real life - there were no divisions then. State, culture, religion, politics, economics: they all bled over into each other. The Romans are thus guilty of 'Shooting the messenger', and bought about their own demise through their basic lack of civility towards other human beings.....this led inevitably to debauchery, which has a caustic effect on civilization. I simplify the collapse of Rome to one very simple cause: the lack of value of every human life created such a massive imbalance in the system that it became totally unsustainable in every way. SLAVERY killed Rome from within....at one point, the city of Rome proper was 90% slaves: while there will always be an element of heirarchy in every society, such a rotten system simply cannot survive past a certain point and typically spirals out of control relatively quickly.

10. Gibbons, in Decline and Fall, indicated several points that led to Chrisitanity's rapid spread, but I simplify it to three points:
A. Consolidation of and integration of muliple religions. Unlike today's bible thumping cretans, Christianity was originally a flexible and accomodating platform not much unlike a modern Linux system with Mac, Dos, and Windows interfaces. The word "Catholic" means "all encompassing". Mythologies could be woven into the tapestry even after the council of Nicea, but that really did mark the end of the period of rapid evolution. The shift went from 'everyone's religion will be accomodated on some level" to "everyone will accomodate our religion". This set the stage for the various rebellioins, reinterpretations, and other movements that continue to this day.
B. Christ differentiated between physical reality and 'supernatural' reality. The soul, heaven, and hell, were all now separate from physical reality. While this seems basic, it is on par with the stages of child development where mental faculties develop the capacity to process much more sophisticated levels of abstraction. This basic mental faith enabled the human race to make a quantum leap forward, and the importance of this ability to think abstractly is probably as important as the development of the concept of zero: assigning a value to nothing allowed a huge leap forward in mathematical processing. The human race became smarter, but did not make use of it right away.....
C. All souls, according to Christ, were immortal. This was far and away the most important innovation. Up until the time of Jesus, only royalty and the priestly and warrior classes were thought to have much of an afterlife. Slaves in particular were drawn to Christ's teachings, as their life now had value: if not in this life, then certainly in the next. No other religion up until then had 'democratized' the afterlife, and the appeal was overwhelming compared to the stale religion of the empire at that point in history.

Christianity has been hijacked at times by self serving and venal 'leaders' just like almost every other institution but also serves a valuable function. Even those hostile to or apathetic towards religion can not deny its influence. Jesus taught some pretty cool things. The rest, well, it's really where you decide your level of involvement.

In the words on one of my favorite professors in college, "With religious faith, seek simplicity, but never trust it." Good luck in your exploration of your religion.

Hahah. Fucking blasphemy.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=religious-experiences-s...

I didn't really read the above article but looks relevant.

Nice find, I'll add it to my library of thoughts on the subject.

That is the summary. Do you have any IDEA how much data I had to sift through to get that??? It's one thing to read it somewhere, it's another to verify it point by point over the course of literally years.

Had I spent the effort in market/ equity research, I'd be a very wealthy person!

Awesome post UFO, haven't seen a quality post like that (with references to books, actual books!) on WSO for a while. Wish I could give you multiple SB's

Amazing post, UFO.

I'm agnostic, but hope for the sake of my afterlife that there isn't a God.

LOL! maybe this will help you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0T1ePceR6c

so it begins......

i say ancient aliens are really angels

My experts tell me it's a pyramid.

All this talk about Jesus, religion, god....... guess you guys dont watch ancient aliens on the history channel?

these vids are great, they really get me thinking about it

How does the pope thing work? Do we all vote or something? I would like to vote for UFO. Praise JEEBUS!

You bet your fucking dick I do, he blessed me with the ability to throw fast as fuck and he gave me the mind of a scientist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGrlWOhtj3g

This is one of those rhetorical questions people ask when they already have their mind made up about the answer. If someone told you they experienced a miracle and put it on the news, would you believe it? Probably not. So what would be the point of telling you? There'd be no point.

Also, Pope John Paul recently had a miracle attributed to him...a nun who prayed to him had an incurable disease -Parkinson's- cured. That was the first step on his road to being a saint.

http://www.emaxhealth.com/1275/parkinsons-miracle-cure-puts-john-paul-be...