Decision - BarCap vs. JPM S&T 
by dgvvvrt
(Monkey, 60
Points)
on 2/19/12 at 10:35am
Please help. Have to make a decision real quick.
Some relevant info:
- Don't care about prestige. I assume JPM wins on this front in the US.
- Interested in FICC but don't know which area: which bank is stronger in FX? rates? credit? mortgages? commodities? Have seen the Citi report with the circles but I assume that's outdated by now.
- Health: which bank is in better shape?
Thanks.
bar cap win in terms of s&t
bar cap win in terms of s&t they performed best
Unfortunately, no. JPM was #1
Unfortunately, no. JPM was #1 in FICC revenues for 2011. However, there are other factors I'm considering.
BarCap is THE fixed income
BarCap is THE fixed income power house.
I think JPM bonuses have held
I think JPM bonuses have held up best over the past few years, not to mention its Fortress balance sheet/stability.
JPM is a safer bet in terms
JPM is a safer bet in terms of not blowing up. In terms of trading you can't go wrong if you want to do FICC, they are both very strong. How did you like the people in each place? I'd make the decision based on that, since that will determine how you fit in, how quick you learn and therefore when do you get your book and all the other stuff you're asking. Also might depend on geography? Are we talking NYC both? London? HK?
BarCap has always been a FICC
BarCap has always been a FICC powerhouse and after the lehman acquisition the equities portion of their business grew exponentially.
That said, JPM weathered the financial crisis very well and was likely one of the more stable firms in terms of comp throughout the past few years...tough to compare with barcap though since they weren't a major US player during the height of the crisis.
I would honestly say make your decision based on fit. if you are a superstar anywhere you will get compensated well and have job security. But if you hate the people you work with you will do a lot worse, hate your life, and want to jump ship ASAP.
doh i see i thought op was
doh i see i thought op was referencing something else srry
Barclays Capital’s revenue from currency trading rose 27 percent last year, “benefitting from market volatility and strong client volumes,” the London-based company said today in a statement.
Revenue from fixed-income, currencies and commodities trading dropped 27 percent from the previous year to 6.3 billion pounds ($10 billion) and tumbled 52 percent in the fourth quarter, according to the statement.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-10/barclays-currency-trading-reven...
Thanks everyone. Please keep
Thanks everyone. Please keep the comments coming.
Offers are for NY. I would say I liked the people at each bank a lot - that is, equally. But then again I only met with a handful of people during the interviews.
JPM is a FICC beast! JPM has
JPM is a FICC beast! JPM has run shit for the last two years. Out of all the top FICC franchises (JPM, GS, DB, Barcap, Citi), JPM has probably been the most consistently strong performer for the last three years.
FX - Barcap
Rates - Both good
Credit - Both good
Mortgages - No idea
Commodities - Would have said barcap a few years ago, but these days, I reckon it's a toss up between the two
EM - JPM
They are both great FICC franchises, but I think JPM has a stronger global brand as well which always helps.
I like BarCap because of how
I like BarCap because of how they structure their S&T operation - Fixed Income and Equities (as well as commodities, fx, all deriv., etc) are under the same umbrella. They claim this makes them more nimble from a client service perspective, and I can't comment on that, but it does mean that you will have more opportunities to expose yourself to a broader spectrum of asset classes and even reach beyond fixed income or whatever it is you're interested in now. In general, I think it is a rule of thumb to keep your options broad looking forward, and key to that is avoiding pigeonholing yourself for as long as you can - obviously at a certain point you will have to start honing in on a specific division and even a specific vertical if you want to be any good at your job.
As a disclosure: My dream job is DCM origination at BarCap.
"There are three ways to make a living in this business: be first, be smarter, or cheat."
^^Don't really know if what
^^Don't really know if what you said was true in NYC.
But in London, FICC and equities are 2 separate things. Barcap London has 2 FICC trading floors and a separate one for equities.
Also S+T internships are desk-specific, so you don't really get exposure to 'a spectrum of asset classes', at least not in London.
re OP: You should ask HRs which team/product area you will be placed at, then decide which offer to take. Anyway you can't really go wrong with either options :) good luck
barx is way better in fx,
barx is way better in fx, rates, better in mortgages, worse in credit.
scholsey_18 wrote: Also S+T
Also S+T internships are desk-specific, so you don't really get exposure to 'a spectrum of asset classes', at least not in London.
re OP: You should ask HRs which team/product area you will be placed at, then decide which offer to take. Anyway you can't really go wrong with either options :) good luck
Simply not true. A lot of programs are rotational and desk placement doesn't occur until after you sign. Generally speaking, even if you get a bad fit for a desk, if you come to a mutual agreement that neither one of you wants to extend/receive an offer, most places are open to visiting other desks.
Cash4Gold wrote: scholsey_18
Also S+T internships are desk-specific, so you don't really get exposure to 'a spectrum of asset classes', at least not in London.
re OP: You should ask HRs which team/product area you will be placed at, then decide which offer to take. Anyway you can't really go wrong with either options :) good luck
Simply not true. A lot of programs are rotational and desk placement doesn't occur until after you sign. Generally speaking, even if you get a bad fit for a desk, if you come to a mutual agreement that neither one of you wants to extend/receive an offer, most places are open to visiting other desks.
I was talking about Barcap.
scholsey_18 wrote: Cash4Gold
Also S+T internships are desk-specific, so you don't really get exposure to 'a spectrum of asset classes', at least not in London.
re OP: You should ask HRs which team/product area you will be placed at, then decide which offer to take. Anyway you can't really go wrong with either options :) good luck
Simply not true. A lot of programs are rotational and desk placement doesn't occur until after you sign. Generally speaking, even if you get a bad fit for a desk, if you come to a mutual agreement that neither one of you wants to extend/receive an offer, most places are open to visiting other desks.
I was talking about Barcap.
So was he. BarCap NYC is a rotational program.
I think the guy meant that
I think the guy meant that BarCap London is desk-specific. BarCap NY is rotational.
bearflatten wrote: barx is
barx is way better in fx, rates, better in mortgages, worse in credit.
Barx way better than JP in rates? (note OP is talking about NYC, not Ldn)
Either way I hate to start an
Either way I hate to start an internet pissing match about a minute detail but Barcap wins for just about all of those desks. I cannot comment on propensity for junior risk taking, because the Volcker Rule is going to hit different people in different ways. The best recommendation I can make if you really want to run a book some day is to do the little things right and stay close with senior mentors. If you manage to fuck up my coffee, which requires almost no work and very little mental capacity, your risk limit is going to be quite small if it ever exists.
Don't worry about bank health. In the event of an epic catastrophe, these banks get called on by governments to buy the steamed piles of shit within the industry. If either of these banks files for bankruptcy or becomes "stressed" then there are bigger issues than your summer internship or ability to receive a full time offer at the conclusion.
But congrats on both offers!
NewGuy wrote: bearflatten
barx is way better in fx, rates, better in mortgages, worse in credit.
Barx way better than JP in rates? (note OP is talking about NYC, not Ldn)
Yes, at least in linear rates.
Some useful information I
Some useful information I came across, for anyone else that is looking at these couple of firms:
Interest Rate Derivatives
GLOBAL
1. Barclays
2. Deutsche
3. JPMorgan
BY CURRENCY
- USD:
1. JPMorgan
2. Deutsche
3. Barclays
- EUR:
1. Deutsche
2. Barclays
3. JPMorgan
- JPY:
1. Nomura
- GBP:
1. RBS
2. Barclays
3. MS/BAML/Lloyds
BY PRODUCT:
- IR Swaps, 2y to 10y
1. Barclays
2. JPMorgan/Deutsche
- IR Swaps, 10y to 50y
1. Barclays
2. JPMorgan/Deutsche
- Inflation
1. Barclays
- IR Vanilla Options
1. JPMorgan
- IR Exotic Options
1. Citi
2. GS
3. JPMorgan
Source: http://www.nicholas-scott.com/uploads/Q1-Q2%202011newsletter.pdf
Total Derivatives’ rankings are the largest and most comprehensive peer review of investment bank performance in interest rate derivatives. There were 642 individual responses to the latest survey registering a total of over 1,900 votes. Experienced professionals involved in trading, sales and marketing, structuring and strategy at investment banks formed the largest group of respondents, with portfolio managers at hedge funds and other asset managers also taking part.
JPM is a one-desk placement
JPM is a one-desk placement program for the internship, so something to consider...
I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.