Back Office Trap - Need advice now 
Hey fellow monkeys! I'm an active follower on the website but haven't posted much. I know there is a lot of advice on back office to front office & how it's almost impossible but I just want some suggestions from experienced monkeys.
Im from a semi-target school with an average GPA. I busted my ass this year & networked hard. I luckily got a SA offer at BB. I accepted it cause I had nothing else. The positioned was marketed as middle office but ended up being back office. I spoke to some alumni & they agreed its back office. So I'll be doing crappy operations stuff. They also mentioned the main HR person for the program really gets pissed when ppl try to go to middle or front. So I can't make it obvious im trying to move ahead.
I know I have a while until I start but what do you guys recommend I do? I really don't want to do back office, no offense to anybody, but I've always been interested in banking. Should I network & try to interview for FO when I'm there even though I'll jeopardize my full time offer with operations? Or just try to interview else where for FO?
Thanks in advance!
Thanks in advance!
"I always knew I was going to be rich. I don't think I ever doubted it for a minute."
I worked in BO for a year so
I worked in BO for a year so I feel that I can answer your question fairly adequately.
First of all, yes it is a trap. But it is not an inescapable trap.
Second of all, a job is better than no job.
I wouldn't worry too much about what HR thinks.. most of the BO-->FO stories I have heard have been done by people circumventing HR and getting hired directly by FO people who they networked with in the company.
Of course keep trying to apply to FO positions.. at other banks. Instead of applying to FO positions at the bank you got an offer from, just begin working there and learn the ropes. After a month or so when you're comfortable with the day to day operations (BO operations are pretty easy to learn for the most part), then you can start networking with the FO guys. Only start doing this when you are comfortable that you can do your job everyday and still have time to network as well.
There are several people on WSO that have networked to the FO by simply asking higher ups in the FO if they can help them with certain projects on the side. In other words, you're offering to assist with some work for no pay. If you continue doing well and impress them, it's possible that they'll keep you in mind as spots open up.
I wouldn't worry about 1 BO experience on your resume. Most recruiters know it's a tough job market and smart people are having to take positions that they don't want. It's the guys who have been BO for years and years that fall into the 'trap' and seem to never be able to get out. The thinking goes that if you're BO for that long, you must be good at it and it's more useful for the bank to keep you there.
Whatever you do, I wouldn't sit on my ass instead of taking a BO position. You do learn a little bit about the ins and outs of the system and it's a great chance to meet people.
best of luck
Meet a few people, test the
Meet a few people, test the waters and see how things go.
You're not going to lose your offer because you meet with a few bankers after hours, particularly if your manager/whoever is responsible for you doesn't know. If you think things are going well, it might be worth getting more aggressive and risking your offer.
Unless you have an absolutely great relationship with your group, telling them your goal is to move to FO is probably not to your advantage. Also, telling hr or even the other summer analysts might not be in your best interest.
agree with rothyman
agree with rothyman above.....i hv been working in HF BO for over an year now and have circumvented HR to talk directly to buy side analysts...also have been taking weekend fin modelling classes and using all my spare time educating myself on whatever i can lay my hands on investing side... i m now a days more than happy to help buy side analysts with few basic projects n trying to learn a trick or two....ofcourse all without pay n putting late nighters i.e
its all not all very pretty in my case but i had taken up my BO stint all starry eyed as a 21 year old..nd even spurred a consulting profile earlier as i thought i was at the right place and all set for the big league soon!!
but now with reality finally shining on my a** and waken me up im doing whatever i can to be not caught in the trap!
few steps i am following...hopefully you can start from day1
= finish my work early( in BO once you get the hang of stuff it aint much of a brain cruncher and if you are smart enough you finish it early and then i religiously sit and educate myself with market, positions we have taken up, reading up stuff in BBG)
= once ppl get into so called BO trap they stop fighting it and take life easy..they are happy doing their 40-45 hr gig and go back n have a life( which is not bad considering i know they are really nice ppl...and they do lead a decent life) so i try not to get influenced by them about the take life easy part..myt seem easy but trust me... at-least for me it wasn't....
= studying for CFA - Through not a golden ticket to buy side certainly is a very strong leverage for you..
=spruce up your resume - i had a professional resume made with all the right tips going into it ...
agreed im still in BO but with all these small but significant knowledge i have gained;networking i have done i do have landed in a few interviews with ER,IB ,Trading Profiles and through i may not be good enough but certainly will give my best shot & unlike last yr where i just fuckn enjoyd life like a headless chicken i do feel now im inching forward in right direction...
P.S i am also preparing for GMAT and though i heard they hate BO goons like me but i do have some pretty solid Extra curriculars and other POR i can certainly talk about if not my work!!
Just keep the fire burning inside and i believe if we work our ass off n do the exact right thing needed we definitely can do the impossible...BO2FO...n what not...
"A man travels the world over in search of what he needs and returns home to find it." ~George Moore
Good shit in those three
Good shit in those three posts above.
Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
One thing you may want to
One thing you may want to keep in mind is that Banks can be reluctant to move their own back office people to front office positions due to issues with knowing the behind the scenes systems. Makes fraud easier (with respect to trading positions at least)
bigblue3908 wrote: One thing
One thing you may want to keep in mind is that Banks can be reluctant to move their own back office people to front office positions due to issues with knowing the behind the scenes systems. Makes fraud easier (with respect to trading positions at least)
He's a summer analyst that wants to move into investment banking...
How is this relevant at all?
Operations doesn't even interact with banking.
and fuck you. Your football team sucks. How does four straight losses feel?
Forget about HR. How much
Forget about HR. How much does your current manager like you? How much is he willing to go to bat for you? Or at the very least, how reluctant is he to see you leave the firm?
That is question #1 here.
If your manager likes you, you're in good shape. But as the market shrinks, it's gettting tougher and tougher to do an internal transfer.
//Former MO Analytics guy-> BO IT guy (merger) -> FO S&T
Work hard, play hard.
"I accepted it cause I had
"I accepted it cause I had nothing else." as of now, this is your best shot. Work your tail off in this and seize the next opportunity that opens up, but don't loose the hard work. Stay focused in your goal with the points mentioned above and all the other stuff around will be noise.
Realize that because it is
Realize that because it is your junior summer, your experience this summer is key for landing a FT role. Most boutiques or smaller shops don't do a lot of recruiting until later on, so you still have the opportunity to look towards a boutique for getting more relevant SA work.
FreezePops
One thing you may want to keep in mind is that Banks can be reluctant to move their own back office people to front office positions due to issues with knowing the behind the scenes systems. Makes fraud easier (with respect to trading positions at least)
He's a summer analyst that wants to move into investment banking...
How is this relevant at all?
Operations doesn't even interact with banking.
and fuck you. Your football team sucks. How does four straight losses feel?
Hahahaha Eagles fans are funny.
On topic I didn't see that he said he was interested in banking, only that he wanted to move to FO of some sort. Apologies
Didn't have time to read all
Didn't have time to read all the comments - but you seem to confuse BO and MO
Back office are lawyers, accountants etc... MO are the guys who book the trades, sort out the shit and support the traders and sales people.
HR gets pissed when people want to move from BO to MO... HR will get pissed if you try to move from cleaning the toilets to selling cookies at the convenience store. Why? Because they hired you in a role, and they want you there.
Someone said networking. If there is a smart guy in MO that does a brilliant job booking trades, he will move up to FO end of the story.
Accept the job, apply everywhere else. and as somebody send a job is better than no job.
FreezePops
One thing you may want to keep in mind is that Banks can be reluctant to move their own back office people to front office positions due to issues with knowing the behind the scenes systems. Makes fraud easier (with respect to trading positions at least)
He's a summer analyst that wants to move into investment banking...
How is this relevant at all?
Operations doesn't even interact with banking.
and fuck you. Your football team sucks. How does four straight losses feel?
I'm in IBD and interact with Ops on occasion.
if you dont want to do
if you dont want to do operations, try and fix your situation. they are not going to fire you. worst case scenario is you piss off the HR person and you dont get a FT offer, which it seems you wouldnt accept anyway
I used to be indecisive, now I'm just not sure.
bigblue3908 wrote: Hahahaha
Hahahaha Eagles fans are funny.
"Lafayette College"
Not an eagle's fan. Was referring to your alma matter's football team.
Lafayette sucks
Lafayette sucks
Thank you everybody for the
Thank you everybody for the advice! Really appreciate it...hopefully can capitalize on the internship & get into FO
"I always knew I was going to be rich. I don't think I ever doubted it for a minute."
Someone mentioned helping on
Someone mentioned helping on projects, do you just right out and ask traders if they have any projects you can help with in your spare time? I find myself with a good amount of spare time during the day (hence me being here) so I would definitely like to help out my traders in any way.
I say fuck change, I don't chase dimes
AnATLieninNY wrote: Someone
Someone mentioned helping on projects, do you just right out and ask traders if they have any projects you can help with in your spare time? I find myself with a good amount of spare time during the day (hence me being here) so I would definitely like to help out my traders in any way.
Ideally you want to form a relationship first with these people (e.g. shooting the shit, after work activities, etc). However there are some S&T guys who may appreciate the ballsiness of simply going up to them and saying, "Hey __, my name is ___ and I'm really interested in trading. Is there anything I could help you with that may benefit both of us?"
As you can imagine these guys are very busy so make sure to pick an opportune time to meet & greet.
Open up a brokerage account.
Open up a brokerage account. Make some bad ass trades Network. At least you would have some proof you know what you are doing. Nobody is going to turn down a bad-ass trader. I'm not sure if you mean the sales side or the trading side. Not sure how to move to sales. You can always look forward to an MBA if this is something you really want. Oh on the trading thing. Make real trades with real money. None of this simulation crap.
mikebrady wrote: Open up a
Open up a brokerage account. Make some bad ass trades Network. At least you would have some proof you know what you are doing. Nobody is going to turn down a bad-ass trader. I'm not sure if you mean the sales side or the trading side. Not sure how to move to sales. You can always look forward to an MBA if this is something you really want. Oh on the trading thing. Make real trades with real money. None of this simulation crap.
It may not be a bad idea to start trading on your own brokerage account, but I don't know a lot of college students who have enough liquid cash to actually 'trade' with. The wrong thing to do is to take the majority of your savings and throw it into the stock market. Especially when you don't have the tools necessary to have any 'edge' on the big boys. The chances that you're going to be a trading super-star on your E-trade account is slim to none.
If you want to move to sales, all you have to do is be likable and interested in markets. Seriously that is it. You don't have to have an outstanding GPA, Ivy League School, or uncle who is a CFO @ a BB. If you meet the sales guys from BBs and boutiques, you'll notice they are all very engaged and likable. They are hired because they have a certain way of delivering the information to their clients; not because of the information they deliver.