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Wall Street Oasis » Blogs » MMBinNC's blog

S&P Downgrades U.S. Government Debt Forum's RSS Feed Share

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MMBinNC's picture
by MMBinNC      ST
 
(Neanderthal, 2,156
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 8:34pm
National-Debt-Clock.jpg

In a move not shocking to anyone who has been paying attention these past few weeks, S&P has downgraded government debt to AA+. Interestingly the downgrade was delayed due to the White House questioning the models underlying the analysis- saying that they were off by a few trillion dollars" Even so, the company has issued a statement downgrading U.S. debt, and affirmed the A-1 short term rating.

S&P Downgrades U.S. to AA+, Outlook Negative - Full Text

WSJ: Same as Above

Reality hits you hard, bro...
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Tags:
  • Japan
  • debt crisis
  • debt

Comments

sharks9022's picture

Monday should be fun.

sharks9022     
 
(Baboon, 121
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 8:41pm

Monday should be fun.

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pingafrita's picture

Jesus Christ, I give them

pingafrita     
 
(Senior Baboon, 182
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 8:42pm

Jesus Christ, I give them props for going ahead with it. They issued that statement a few weeks ago calling for $4 trillion in cuts and didn't want to look like fools once that target wasn't met. It's the right thing to do but at a terribe time. Who's with me thinking they'll be another 5-10% drop next week?

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sayandarula's picture

oh fuck.

sayandarula      O
 
 
(King Kong, 1,318
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 8:42pm

oh fuck.

Money Never Sleeps? More like Money Never SUCKS amirite?!?!?!?

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Ambition's picture

haha I just read this.

Ambition      EN
 
(Senior Gorilla, 755
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 8:44pm

haha I just read this.

I want a lady on the street, but a freak in the bed,

Go Bucks!!

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Ambition's picture

and came on here to post this

Ambition      EN
 
(Senior Gorilla, 755
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 8:44pm

and came on here to post this guess i have been beaten

I want a lady on the street, but a freak in the bed,

Go Bucks!!

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vitaminc's picture

sayandarula wrote: oh

vitaminc      AM
 
(Senior Monkey, 91
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 8:44pm
sayandarula:

oh fuck.

exactly my thoughts.

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RIP Lehman's picture

Interest rates will go up if

RIP Lehman     
 
(Chimp, 2
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 8:46pm

Interest rates will go up if S&P ratings really mean anything. Hopefully the DJI won't dip again like it did yesterday because of this.

The most valuable commodity I know of is information

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dwight schrute's picture

why did they do this on a

dwight schrute     
 
(Gorilla, 562
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 8:46pm

why did they do this on a friday night? interesting to see how the yields will react.

Because you just never know what stupid rule tomorrow will bring...

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mhossain495's picture

Wait until it all tanks then

mhossain495     
 
(Monkey, 58
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 8:47pm

Wait until it all tanks then buy like it's a clearance sale at a department store.

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RIP Lehman's picture

Why wait? a few puts right

RIP Lehman     
 
(Chimp, 2
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 8:48pm

Why wait? a few puts right now will do the trick....

The most valuable commodity I know of is information

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obscenity's picture

God willing, this is the

obscenity     
 
(Senior Baboon, 180
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 8:50pm

God willing, this is the final nail in the coffin for Obama.

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marcellus_wallace's picture

My comment in other

marcellus_wallace      ST
 
 
(King Kong, 1,353
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:02pm

My comment in other threads...

Dear Mr. Obama you can't spend anymore. Face the facts and get a real plan in place for once, you can't just throw $$$ at the poker table anymore.

Ritholtz is right though the way the S&P did this was poorly executed. Very poorly executed.

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blastoise's picture

I wonder what happends to

blastoise      O
 
(Neanderthal, 3,672
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:04pm

I wonder what happends to Financials Monday

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Dr Joe's picture

Guess at the Dow on Monday. I

Dr Joe      O
 
 
(King Kong, 1,032
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:07pm

Guess at the Dow on Monday. I say -600

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seedy underbelly's picture

Dr Joe wrote: Guess at the

seedy underbelly      IB
 
(King Kong, 1,098
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:13pm
Dr Joe:

Guess at the Dow on Monday. I say -600

Dude, that's close to '08 numbers. It's definitely not that bad.

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Going Concern's picture

US is now rated below

Going Concern     
 
(Senior Monkey, 72
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:14pm

US is now rated below Liechtenstein. I didn't even know Liechtenstein was a country. What a joke.

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marcellus_wallace's picture

seedy underbelly wrote: Dr

marcellus_wallace      ST
 
 
(King Kong, 1,353
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:16pm
seedy underbelly:
Dr Joe:

Guess at the Dow on Monday. I say -600

Dude, that's close to '08 numbers. It's definitely not that bad.

How so? The problems of 08 were never solved.

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seedy underbelly's picture

On a per-capita basis,

seedy underbelly      IB
 
(King Kong, 1,098
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:17pm

On a per-capita basis, Leichenstein's one of the wealthiest countries in the world genius.

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Freshcut's picture

Wow I am impressed that they

Freshcut     
 
(Baboon, 101
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:17pm

Wow I am impressed that they actually stepped up and went through with it.

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blastoise's picture

Obama isn't getting a 2nd

blastoise      O
 
(Neanderthal, 3,672
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:19pm

Obama isn't getting a 2nd term lol

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Koho's picture

While this is clearly not

Koho      O
 
(Orangutan, 276
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:19pm

While this is clearly not great news, one cannot be surprised. As someone posted above (maybe the OP), the S&P was looking for $4 trillion and instead got some BS "$2.whatever" trillion. As for doing it on a Friday night, I'm not sure what to think. In some sense it allows for the news to be digested before Sunday's Asia open.. on the other hand, people could dwell on the news the entire weekend, making it even worse than had they done it during the week.

Either way, the market will sell off (unless we get QE3?!?). The politicians need to understand that their joke of an effort at "debt reform" is not fooling anyone. Real changes need to be made and they needed to be made yesterday. FIGURE IT OUT.

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pingafrita's picture

seedy underbelly wrote: Dr

pingafrita     
 
(Senior Baboon, 182
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:20pm
seedy underbelly:
Dr Joe:

Guess at the Dow on Monday. I say -600

Dude, that's close to '08 numbers. It's definitely not that bad.

It's not, this is an OPINION and that all it is, this doesn't change the govts ability to pay its debts but the market is so fking irrational right now and driven by the same sort of fear that we saw in '08 that 500+ drop is likely.

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seedy underbelly's picture

Interesting op-ed:

seedy underbelly      IB
 
(King Kong, 1,098
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:21pm

Interesting op-ed: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/aug/05/us-credit...

marcellus_wallace:

How so? The problems of 08 were never solved.

The problems absolutely persist, but the gloom-and-doom atmosphere that decimated the markets in '08 isn't quite the same today.

Downgrading the U.S. only serves as a temporary bump to the economy.

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dwight schrute's picture

Seriously S&P fuck you. I had

dwight schrute     
 
(Gorilla, 562
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:26pm

Seriously S&P fuck you. I had tomorrow off. Now EVERYONE will be here. Which means I have to be here. This was going to be my first saturday off...ever.

Because you just never know what stupid rule tomorrow will bring...

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marcellus_wallace's picture

Fed basically just told S&P

marcellus_wallace      ST
 
 
(King Kong, 1,353
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:27pm

Fed basically just told S&P to eff off.

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Koho's picture

dwight schrute

Koho      O
 
(Orangutan, 276
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:28pm
dwight schrute:

Seriously S&P fuck you. I had tomorrow off. Now EVERYONE will be here. Which means I have to be here. This was going to be my first saturday off...ever.

What do you do?

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alexpasch's picture

I'm shocked they actually

alexpasch     
 
 
(King Kong, 1,951
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:37pm

I'm shocked they actually followed through. Props to S&P.

@alexpasch for tweets about finance, politics, random musings, and the egregious debauchery that is my life

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Mfsl27's picture

Markets up on Monday or

Mfsl27      ST
 
 
(Baboon, 109
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:43pm

Markets up on Monday or Tuesday. Calling it. I understand the implications of a downgrade, but give me a break these rating agencies had AAA ratings on subprime mortgage cdos, smart money will be buying the shit out of everything us little guys sell.

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dwight schrute's picture

Koho wrote: dwight schrute

dwight schrute     
 
(Gorilla, 562
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:45pm
Koho:
dwight schrute:

Seriously S&P fuck you. I had tomorrow off. Now EVERYONE will be here. Which means I have to be here. This was going to be my first saturday off...ever.

What do you do?

interning, am.

Because you just never know what stupid rule tomorrow will bring...

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trade4size's picture

Fuck this. I dont know how

trade4size      ST
 
 
(Neanderthal, 2,116
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:45pm

Fuck this. I dont know how the prick that had the final say at S&P sleeps at night.

NOBAMA 2012!

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.

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Freshcut's picture

Mfsl27 wrote: Markets up on

Freshcut     
 
(Baboon, 101
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:46pm
Mfsl27:

Markets up on Monday or Tuesday. Calling it. I understand the implications of a downgrade, but give me a break these rating agencies had AAA ratings on subprime mortgage cdos, smart money will be buying the shit out of everything us little guys sell.

Want to put some money where your mouth is?

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marcellus_wallace's picture

Mfsl27 wrote: Markets up on

marcellus_wallace      ST
 
 
(King Kong, 1,353
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:51pm
Mfsl27:

Markets up on Monday or Tuesday. Calling it. I understand the implications of a downgrade, but give me a break these rating agencies had AAA ratings on subprime mortgage cdos, smart money will be buying the shit out of everything us little guys sell.

The smart money has forced the 10 year to down below 2.5%. The smart money start to sell-off early last month. Who's to say the smart ain't going to let this thing go down another 1000 pts before they step in. That's why it's the smart money.

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MMBinNC's picture

trade4size wrote: Fuck this.

MMBinNC      ST
 
(Neanderthal, 2,156
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:55pm
trade4size:

Fuck this. I dont know how the prick that had the final say at S&P sleeps at night.

NOBAMA 2012!

I don't see how it would really matter to the guy at S&P. I mean look a tit this way, if this prevents a future government default/collapse or their investors losing a ton of money they did the right thing. Hell, Japan was downgraded at a similar debt-to-GDP ratio.

Reality hits you hard, bro...

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MMBinNC's picture

marcellus_wallace

MMBinNC      ST
 
(Neanderthal, 2,156
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 9:57pm
marcellus_wallace:
Mfsl27:

Markets up on Monday or Tuesday. Calling it. I understand the implications of a downgrade, but give me a break these rating agencies had AAA ratings on subprime mortgage cdos, smart money will be buying the shit out of everything us little guys sell.

The smart money has forced the 10 year to down below 2.5%. The smart money start to sell-off early last month. Who's to say the smart ain't going to let this thing go down another 1000 pts before they step in. That's why it's the smart money.

The fact that stock and treasury and commodity cash in were converted to cash instead of being re-invested shows that this is probably right.

Reality hits you hard, bro...

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B4A23's picture

MMBinNC

B4A23      CO
 
(Monkey, 42
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 10:12pm
MMBinNC:
marcellus_wallace:
Mfsl27:

Markets up on Monday or Tuesday. Calling it. I understand the implications of a downgrade, but give me a break these rating agencies had AAA ratings on subprime mortgage cdos, smart money will be buying the shit out of everything us little guys sell.

The smart money has forced the 10 year to down below 2.5%. The smart money start to sell-off early last month. Who's to say the smart ain't going to let this thing go down another 1000 pts before they step in. That's why it's the smart money.

The fact that stock and treasury and commodity cash in were converted to cash instead of being re-invested shows that this is probably right.

I hope you're right. I set up a solid energy short last thursday, executed well, and covered today....then I flipped and went the other way this afternoon. I don't need any Lehman bullshit.

I'm incriminating myself.

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pingafrita's picture

From ZH, lol Peter Barnes “Is

pingafrita     
 
(Senior Baboon, 182
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 10:17pm

From ZH, lol

Peter Barnes “Is there a risk that the United States could lose its AAA credit rating? Yes or no?”

Geithner’s response: “No risk of that.”

“No risk?” Barnes asked.

“No risk,” Geithner said.

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shera's picture

It's no secret S&P is staffed

shera      AM
 
(Baboon, 141
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 10:20pm

It's no secret S&P is staffed with complete retards and wall street rejects. They acknowledged to the Obama admin that they were off by $2 trillion but will stick with their assessment all the same. Hah!

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Therightcoast's picture

So what does this mean?

Therightcoast     
 
(Baboon, 115
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 10:21pm

So what does this mean?

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vitaminc's picture

Therightcoast wrote: So what

vitaminc      AM
 
(Senior Monkey, 91
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 10:34pm
Therightcoast:

So what does this mean?

Risk free rate in CAPM is no longer risk free. Draw your own conclusions.

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awm55's picture

There is 0.00% chance the US

awm55      ST
 
(Senior Gorilla, 937
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 10:34pm

There is 0.00% chance the US will default on its debt. We are no where even close to that point. The biggest threat to this country are the self-serving scumbag politicians in Congress.

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pingafrita's picture

Therightcoast wrote: So what

pingafrita     
 
(Senior Baboon, 182
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 10:38pm
Therightcoast:

So what does this mean?

No one one knows for sure, it's all speculation at this point but there will definitely be some very interesting developments over the next week.

Another thought - This just GREATLY, I mean GREATLY reduced Obama's chance of getting relected. Too bad because I thinks he genuinely wants to do the right thing for the people. oh well..

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awm55's picture

I guess the 4% tax rise on

awm55      ST
 
(Senior Gorilla, 937
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 10:39pm

I guess the 4% tax rise on millionaires doesn't seem so bad now does it...

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Mfsl27's picture

I have money where my mouth

Mfsl27      ST
 
 
(Baboon, 109
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 10:45pm

I have money where my mouth is... Went long today after being in cash for the last few months. If I have to weather another 1000 point decline, I can endure it. I think august may be rough but post labor day we start moving up again. Just my opinion guys, not trying to pick fights you guys have just as much as a chance being right as I do haha. Good luck to everyone though, long or short.

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awm55's picture

atm straddles for the win

awm55      ST
 
(Senior Gorilla, 937
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 10:48pm

atm straddles for the win

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MMBinNC's picture

awm55 wrote: I guess the 4%

MMBinNC      ST
 
(Neanderthal, 2,156
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 10:51pm
awm55:

I guess the 4% tax rise on millionaires doesn't seem so bad now does it...

WOULDN'T HAVE DONE ANYTHING

Reality hits you hard, bro...

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Seigniorage's picture

I just feel bad for this

Seigniorage      O
 
(Orangutan, 314
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 10:57pm

I just feel bad for this guy:
http://blogs.forbes.com/steveschaefer/2011/08/05/why-sp-wont-downgrade-t...

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awm55's picture

MMBinNC wrote: awm55

awm55      ST
 
(Senior Gorilla, 937
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 10:58pm
MMBinNC:
awm55:

I guess the 4% tax rise on millionaires doesn't seem so bad now does it...

WOULDN'T HAVE DONE ANYTHING

Not for the downgrade risk in the short run, but in the long term it would only help if they had put a condition into the bill that any increase in tax revenue from the bill would go towards paying down the debt. Alas that did not happen.

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MMBinNC's picture

Seigniorage wrote: I just

MMBinNC      ST
 
(Neanderthal, 2,156
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 11:02pm
Seigniorage:

I just feel bad for this guy:
http://blogs.forbes.com/steveschaefer/2011/08/05/why-sp-wont-downgrade-the-u-s-after-fridays-close/

He just pulled a Dick Bove.

Reality hits you hard, bro...

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rothyman's picture

Man you know a lot of

rothyman      HF
 
 
(Senior Gorilla, 956
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 11:09pm

Man you know a lot of political bullshit went into this one. First there were rumors all day and the market didn't really respond.. which makes me think they thought DC would be able to shove it under the rug.

Then Kudlow announces on his show 'Breaking News' that S&P is going to downgrade us. THEN shortly after he announces that we will not be downgraded and it was false. Finally after taking a nap I wakeup and we are officially AA.

I bet they could make a movie about what happened behind the scenes today.

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sharks9022's picture

BURY ALL CASH IN GROUND

sharks9022     
 
(Baboon, 121
 
Points)
  on 8/5/11 at 11:25pm

BURY ALL CASH IN GROUND

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  • Hello all, I recently was hired as an Analyst at Morgan Stanley. I am not in their real estate division but I am interested in taking a few courses through the Urban land Institute for a certificate in Real Estate Development or Real Estate Finance. I think it would be useful for future...
    Will this qualify for tuition reimbursement?
  • Hi everybody, I signed a contract with Saudi Aramco that pretty much covers the expenses of my university education. I am supposed to repay that by working with them for 5 years OR pay it off. The latter is somewhat out of question (I hear it's somewhere near $1 million), and the former...
    BB paying my sponsor off?
  • I just graduated with an MBA from INSEAD, after five years serving a Goldman FICC trading desk as a BO guy in NY. I missed the typical BB recruitment cycle because to do it right I would have had to start looking even before I got accepted (no summer internship option), and anyway the recruiting...
    Help! GS BO -> INSEAD -> Nothing in IB?
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I came across a blog with very specific notes on the class Peter Thiel is currently teaching at Stanford. I've been going through a class lecture a day when I get some down time in the office. Here are some takeaways I thought we're good from the first 3 lessons. (Some of these are little...
Very detailed notes of Peter Thiel's startup class at Stanford
<strong>Summary</strong> This is not a financial modeling course like the one that is offered at Wall Street Prep, Investment Banking Institute or Analyst Exchange. <strong>Mod Note</strong> Not WSO competing products. Rather this is a series of free tutorials that help...
Free Model-Formatting Course
Here's my story: I will be graduating this semester from a non-target university, majoring finance and accounting, with a decent gpa (3.5 up). I started networking last summer, searching for that IBD full time offer. I was even considering delaying my graduation for one semester with the...
Full Time Offer, at last! Thanks WSO!
This site has really been an amazing help along my career path and I felt that it was necessary to try and give back to the community and hopefully give some hope to the fellow non targets out there that are trying to break in. I also wanted to thank everyone on this site who have been extremely...
Non Target Success Story: MBB Summer Intern
Fellow Primates, We are looking for 1-2 students on each campus to help WSO in its sales efforts to student clubs/career centers, and overall promotion at your school both online and on the ground. Below is a description of the position and benefits...thanks in advance for your help! <a...
WSO Campus Representative Program
Just got back from a quick lunch break, first one i've had in 6 months not at the desk. I'm a 25yro quant trader/geek at a well known hedge fund in NYC and I pull in around $250k-$500k, all in, depending on the year. I was just at a bar downtown and this well known 23yro actress came in...
Just got a famous actresses' number. Would a young trader have any chance with a hot rich actress?
A common thread we see on WSO from time to time is regarding working for banks in their regional offices. As banks are leaning towards more cost cutting and squeezing every dollar they can from their operations,<strong> a popular tactic has been to expand existing business and move...
Consider your BB regional office.
Really pretty girl. 22 yro. Just graduating out of Columbia. Majored in computer science. So, shes really smart too. I'm a 25yro third year analyst at a BB. Date went well. Dinner went really well. We laughing all the time and then I asked her what are the most important things she...
Got back from a date. This is what she said. Is this a red flag?
Broke the news to a few monkeys in the chat room, but I proposed to my long-time girlfriend yesterday and now we're engaged. Never been scared about much of anything in my life, and always had a good idea about how to approach new situations. A bit lost on this one. Anyone (other than...
Just Got Engaged
I'm going to be an organ donor in the next few months (kidney, to my dad). I'm not at all in it for the glory (except for subtly dropping it when i'm picking up a chick at the bar) BUT should I add this experience to my resume? If so, how and where? If its subtle / small / at...
Add "Organ Donor" to my resume?
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Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room 
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Harold and Kumar
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Inside Job
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Margin Call
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Other People's Money
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Pursuit of Happyness 
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Rogue Trader
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The Family Man
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The Game 
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Stocks and Blondes
0%
Trading Places
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Wall Street
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Wall Street 2
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